Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[Sokel]

. Maybe in some weeks I'll buy the decouplers he suggested on Audiophonics, just to give a try.

Don't.
It's a band-aid and a really bad one,cheap transformers create havoc down low.

Get some galvanic isolator instead if you want to spend money,even if that's not the cause of your noise.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Sokel:

The links to the products I 'proposed' are isolators with transformers.

Transformers are galvanic isolators.
The specifications of these devices often give specifications between 20 and 20kHZ.

These transformers will very slightly 'degrade' the signals below and above these frequencies as well as bring a level drop of about 0.5dB.

Are you a bat or a human being to HEAR these differences ?

I humbly point out that apart from myself, no one has solved (quickly) the problem encountered by glicioto and consequently proposed a suitable solution from a technical and also financial point of view.

Now that I have done it, we find 'flaws' (no one and nothing is perfect): this makes me laugh gently...

 

[Sokel]

Sokel:

The links to the products I 'proposed' are isolators with transformers.

Transformers are galvanic isolators.
The specifications of these devices often give specifications between 20 and 20kHZ.

These transformers will very slightly 'degrade' the signals below and above these frequencies as well as bring a level drop of about 0.5dB.

Are you a bat or a human being to HEAR these differences ?

I humbly point out that apart from myself, no one has solved (quickly) the problem encountered by glicioto and consequently proposed a suitable solution from a technical and also financial point of view.

Now that I have done it, we find 'flaws' (no one and nothing is perfect): this makes me laugh gently...

Have you ever measured the shorts of these cheap ones down low?Cause I have.
Don't confuse them with the bigger Jensen ones and shorts,there's no comparison between them.

We're not talking small degradation at 20kHz here,we're talking 30-40dB hits and these hits well inside the audible range.

Measurements and comparison of isolation transformers and DI boxes

Almost a year ago I posted this short IMD comparison of various transformers in a iso box review by @amirm, and promised that I'll try to follow up with a more detailed post. This will be it. :) A few different types of devices will be measured and compared, here's a list of units under test...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Jensen ISO-Max CI-1RR Review (Isolation Transformer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Jensen ISO-MAX CI-1RR isolation transformer usually used to remove ground loops. It was kindly bought and drop shipped to me by the member and costs US $130. This is a mono device and could not be simpler with just an input and output: No...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Lundhal transformers (permalloy) are excellent too, their prices too !

As you may have read, the models I have presented here are not the only ones as I have specified.

Please don't make me say what you have misread or misinterpreted: I never said that you should buy these since I specified that there were other models from other dealers as well, it was only to give an example of the solution that could be 'technically' simple to implement in order to solve the problem encountered by glicioto.

That said, it is a bit unfortunate that you intervened a little late since you probably had a solution for the 'distressed' member concerned...

 

[Sokel]

That said, it is a bit unfortunate that you intervened a little late since you probably had a solution for the 'distressed' member concerned...

Intervene,why?
To say the exact same things I always say about mixing class I and class II stuff,the need for companies to immune their designs or follow standards,etc?
There's complains like that once or twice a week,only at ASR,multiply that with all forums.

Most are about USB audio,a few for others.What does that say?Should the companies make the users rely on DIY,often dangerous methods or advices without hands on to a system?
Most of this help does not even ask the user to use a simple DMM to exclude obvious malfunctions.

Do not confuse your DIY passion with the people who want plug'n'play safe and immune gear.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Sokel.

I agree with you, it's obvious BUT it doesn't solve the problem encountered by glicioto (or others) to talk about it at the moment 'T'.

For your information, my solution is not 'DIY' but a technical solution proposed by serious companies (JENSEN, LUNDAHL,...):

- do you claim to be better than them ?

- why don't you do it yourself by creating a ('better') company with ('better') solutions ?

Please be a little more humble with the technical knowledge you possess that others do not have:

wisdom is to pass on knowledge to 'lift' others, not to use it to 'lower' them (ironically)

I hope I don't offend you by writing the feeling I perceive when reading your words.

Sorry.

 

[Sokel]

Sokel.

I agree with you, it's obvious BUT it doesn't solve the problem encountered by glicioto (or others) to talk about it at the moment 'T'.

For your information, my solution is not 'DIY' but a technical solution proposed by serious companies (JENSEN, LUNDAHL,...):

- do you claim to be better than them ?

- why don't you do it yourself by creating a ('better') company with ('better') solutions ?

Please be a little more humble with the technical knowledge you possess that others do not have:

wisdom is to pass on knowledge to 'lift' others, not to use it to 'lower' them (ironically)

I hope I don't offend you by writing the feeling I perceive when reading your words.

Sorry.

I do not claim any technical knowledge nor I underestimate serious companies.
What I say is that a user shouldn't care.At all.At any condition.

And that would be easy if standards were followed all the way through the chain.
It's not a user's job to debug gear,one already paid for that.I exclude some edge cases that may need the extra step.

I can also suggest a number of methods to hopefully fix the problem.But I'm not 100% sure that a user who never tested gear before will know what to do and take the necessary precautions.One of the greatest freedoms in life is to admit to yourself that there are experts,orders of magnitude better of that you will ever know.And users rely on that.
They see some nice numbers around,some nice charts and they assume that all standards are followed,etc.
Well...

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Fortunately there are serious manufacturers who have taken into account this kind of probable very regrettable 'malfunction' ->

All prices combined, it's better than a JENSEN transformer box and would advantageously replace a non-digital preamplifier without remote control by adding headphone outputs

 

[Sokel]

Fortunately there are serious manufacturers who have taken into account this kind of probable very regrettable 'malfunction' ->


View attachment 425767

In my book ground lift should only exist as a last resort at low-powered sources at line level signal,not amps (if I'm not mistaken this is an amp) .
But that's me,others may (do,obviously) think otherwise.

 

[AnalogSteph]

The L70, being an IEC Class I device, needs a ground lift for its unbalanced inputs to not be completely hopeless.

Either way - if I had a ground loop problem that could be solved equally well using either (a) an audio isolation transformer or (b) a USB isolator, I would prefer (b) any day of the week. Audio isolation transformers are full of compromises. If you get a decent cheap one it'll generally be of the 600 ohm variety, so your output better be OK at headphone driving, and the lower the output impedance the better. They can be good enough (I measured my Behringer HD400 years ago, it was generally fine at ~1 Vrms levels) but you better not judge their measurements by ASR standards.

 

[Labjr]

Audio transformers are going to be audible. I wouldn't use them.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hi.

'Subsidiary' question:

if you were offered an E70 TOPPING, would you choose the ESS or AKM version ?

What for ?

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Here is the answer from CHATGPT (IA) ->

"The choice between the TOPPING E70 and the TOPPING E70 VELVET depends on several factors, including your sound preferences, your current equipment, and what you plan to use for the DAC.

TOPPING E70 (ESS chip):

- Features: Uses an ESS Sabre chip, known for its accuracy and clarity. This model is often preferred for musical genres where fidelity and separation of instruments are paramount.

- Sound: Generally perceived as offering a more analytical sound, with detailed highs and good dynamics.

- Applications: Ideal for audiophiles who are looking for accurate and detailed music reproduction.

TOPPING E70 VELVET (AKM chip):

- Features: Uses an AKM chip, which is often appreciated for its musicality and warmer look. This model can offer a smoother sound signature, with well-defined bass.

- Sound: Often described as having a more musical approach, which can be suitable for those who listen to a variety of genres, including jazz, classical, or pop.

- Applications: Suitable for users who prefer an enjoyable and immersive listening experience, without looking for too rigorous a sound analysis.

Conclusion:

- For analytical and precise listening: Opt for the TOPPING E70 (ESS).

- For a musical and warm listening: Choose the TOPPING E70 VELVET (AKM).

Finally, consider trying both models if possible, as sound perception can be subjective and depends on your personal taste as well as your overall audio system."

But what is this idiotic 'AI' that dares to talk about sound ?

(just kidding)

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hello.

It is specified on the documentation that you can use the RCA and XLR outputs at the same time.

However, when I look at the PCBs of the E70 (ESS) and E70 VELVET (AKM) DACs, I see that on the E70 (ESS) version this must cause a loss of 'level' on these outputs when they are used together because of the 'layout' of the circuit components (only 1 OP-AMP common 'LPF' to the XLR and RCA outputs) while this is not the case on the E70 VELVET (AKM) version which use 1 OP-AMP for RCA outputs and 1 OP-AMP for each XLR output ->

Anyone to confirm ?

 

[scruffy1]

sadly my bluetooth seems to have gone to god

the screen blinks awaiting input, but nada

trials of reset have made no difference, and numerous sources both previously bound, and new devices, have no joy so i presume the component may have failed - which per some research is the qualcomm QCC5125 Soc, although some other internal component may be gone

any simple other options to resurrect the function, or suggestions as to who might fix this locally (sydney, australia) given it is out of warranty and the local distributor declines a repair

every other function i use is still fine, but i have grown fond of the bluetooth connectivity

 

[Ahmonge]

any simple other options to resurrect the function, or suggestions as to who might fix this locally (sydney, australia) given it is out of warranty and the local distributor declines a repair

Doesn't Topping offer a solution to repair their products out of warranty?

 

[scruffy1]

not without dealing with china, with mention of export duties... which seems bizarre for a return

 

[Ahmonge]

not without dealing with china, with mention of export duties... which seems bizarre for a return

Topping should have at least one technical service per country or common customs area, wherever it distributes its products. These are not disposable products, but durable goods that must be repairable at reasonable cost in case of failure.

 

[scruffy1]

ah, you europeans live in a different world...

don't i wish that was so

 

[antcollinet]

ah, you europeans live in a different world...

Not really. Topping (and similar) don't have any local service infrastructure here either.


What we do have is laws that require the supplier/retailer (if in country) - distinct from the manufacturer - to provide warranty cover for two years. So even if they are unable to get the device serviced, they are required to replace or refund for failed equipment.

It is why I won't purchase direct from China (or anywhere that can't properly service gear) for anything worth more than I am prepared to just lose.