Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[restorer-john]

It's nice to have a top of the charts dac. But in the end the only thing that counts is the end result , meaning : how does it sound?.

Nobody knows, because, sadly, the mindless followers on ASR don't care how something sounds. They will buy based on a simple FR plot.

They also don't care about ergonomics, functionality, build quality, usability, or reliability. A pity, because that is what actually determines high fidelity gear from cheap rubbish.

 

[MarnixM]

Nobody knows, because, sadly, the mindless followers on ASR don't care how something sounds. They will buy based on a simple FR plot.

They also don't care about ergonomics, functionality, build quality, usability, or reliability. A pity, because that is what actually determines high fidelity gear from cheap rubbish.

 

[Overseas]

I am a bit shamanic, but to call that 'simple FR plot' is not nice. That's science.

 

[restorer-john]

It will sound perfectly transparent, as a good DAC should sound.

Right.

How would you even remotely have any idea how good it will sound? Based on what? A hunch?

Does it glitch, take a few seconds to lock onto a stream, jump between sample rates, mute randomly or refuse to lock onto a TOSLINK output from a standard TV?

 

[restorer-john]

am a bit shamanic, but to call that 'simple FR plot' is not nice. That's science.

It takes me between 1 to 3 seconds to generate a frequency response plot with 492 points from 20Hz to 20kHz at any level between a few mV to 100V using my test equipment.

It's very simple. For me.

An APX555 does it with a chirp, lasting a fraction of a second.

So, yes, it's simple.

 

[Overseas]

It takes me between 1 to 3 seconds to generate a frequency response plot with 492 points from 20Hz to 20kHz at any level between a few mV to 100V using my test equipment.

It's very simple. For me.

An APX555 does it with a chirp, lasting a fraction of a second.

So, yes, it's simple.

Takes me lots to understand 10% of that

 

[PierreV]

Nobody knows, because, sadly, the mindless followers on ASR don't care how something sounds. They will buy based on a simple FR plot.

They also don't care about ergonomics, functionality, build quality, usability, or reliability. A pity, because that is what actually determines high fidelity gear from cheap rubbish.

Wouldn't that rather be Hi-Erg, Hi-Func, Hi-BQ, etc... ? Not that I disagree with you in general, but when it comes to DACs, who cares? For my use case scenario, all of the above happen downstream at the amp or preamp level. Unless one of my DACs dies in a way that I can't fix I don't think I will ever buy one again.

 

[Talisman]

Nobody knows, because, sadly, the mindless followers on ASR don't care how something sounds. They will buy based on a simple FR plot.

They also don't care about ergonomics, functionality, build quality, usability, or reliability. A pity, because that is what actually determines high fidelity gear from cheap rubbish.

Come on, you know very well what we are talking about, what presumable difference in perceptible audio quality compared to another dac, and you know very well that you won't hear any.
I fully agree with you regarding quality control, functions, ergonomics etc etc, but that wasn't what we were discussing.
You are too smart and prepared to think that with those measurements it will sound somehow different from any other dac in the blue department of the chart (and probably the green one too)

 

[JakeK]

All recent Android have LDAC, it is included by default in Android from version 8 or 9, years ago (It was donated by Sony and included in basic AOSP by Goole so all manufacturers got it). So more recent phone have LDAC than AptX.

That's music to my ears! Another good reason to put LDAC on my wishlist for a bluetooth product.

Previously I've tended to only use bluetooth with my less good headphones and for occasional use during parties etc. but now it seems it can be classed as hi-fi when it has LDAC and possibly APTX HD.

 

[SeriousSam70]

Right.

How would you even remotely have any idea how good it will sound? Based on what? A hunch?

Does it glitch, take a few seconds to lock onto a stream, jump between sample rates, mute randomly or refuse to lock onto a TOSLINK output from a standard TV?

All the aspects and possible problems mentioned by you are related to the functionality of the product and not to the quality of the sound reproduction. The sound produced by this DAC will be perfectly transparent (SNR > 120 dB even with RCA).

 

[oscar_dziki]

For $350 I'd expect a physical power button.

 

[Sokel]

Come on, you know very well what we are talking about, what presumable difference in perceptible audio quality compared to another dac, and you know very well that you won't hear any.

Presumable difference at what level?Agreed on the test bench but if heavily attenuated (typical at listening casually) and with the music level further down...
The below measurement by Amir corresponds to -40db attenuation.
Remember that this are ideal circumstances with top of the line measuring equipment,not the every day use which can cause rapid fall of SINAD.
Can you draw the line of absolute transparency?

 

[beagleman]

Come on, you know very well what we are talking about, what presumable difference in perceptible audio quality compared to another dac, and you know very well that you won't hear any.
I fully agree with you regarding quality control, functions, ergonomics etc etc, but that wasn't what we were discussing.
You are too smart and prepared to think that with those measurements it will sound somehow different from any other dac in the blue department of the chart (and probably the green one too)

I would also say the Orange and Red Part of the chart also to some extent.

When you say "Sound different", we are so focused mostly on SINAD only, you fail to even have a way to explain what "possibly" might sound different on a DAC that is Fair or Poor based on our subjective color chart.

Maybe some slight noise or hint of distortion on some material?
Maybe hiss in a very super quiet room, when not playing actual music?

I often fail to see an actual subjective explanation that backs up the measurements.
Being someone that actually does own very low rated and very high rated (SINAD) Dac's I find it really hard to TRULY discern between the "Junk" ones and the "Great" ones.

I can see @restorer-john point for sure.
I feel that MOST DACs simply sound pretty much the same in real world usage, even when having crappy SINAD numbers.

 

[Pojjo73]

This, again?...
I love to listen music, as anybody else here. Charts just tell you what's wrong and what's not when it comes to engineering. Like everything in life, it's always better to know than don't.


100% transparent. DACs don't have any other purpose than that.

So ...you're actually saying: as long as a dac measures very good or supurb and is fully transparent any will sufice?. Tell me then why you should buy , If price wouldn't matter , a dac that costs €100,- or a dac that costs €2000,- if they are somewhat equal in transparency and measurements?.

 

[Talisman]

Presumable difference at what level?Agreed on the test bench but if heavily attenuated (typical at listening casually) and with the music level further down...
The below measurement by Amir corresponds to -40db attenuation.
Remember that this are ideal circumstances with top of the line measuring equipment,not the every day use which can cause rapid fall of SINAD.
Can you draw the line of absolute transparency?

Here I see a sinad over 100db already before 250mv and almost immediately at 90db.
Honestly, if you can notice the difference in those volumes and with that sinad, I offer you my most sincere congratulations.
I don't think I can notice anything at -90 db under any circumstances, and we are talking about the most extreme of conditions.

 

[Sokel]

Here I see a sinad over 100db already before 250mv and almost immediately at 90db.
Honestly, if you can notice the difference in those volumes and with that sinad, I offer you my most sincere congratulations.
I don't think I can notice anything at -90 db under any circumstances, and we are talking about the most extreme of conditions.

I agree,but it's not me who has draw the lines of absolute inaudibility.
We have see them many-many times here.
All I'm saying is that conditions matter,I (newbilly) measure stuff and even the placement for example (near,or away from mains,crappy long or nice cables,etc) gives different results.

 

[Talisman]

So ...you're actually saying: as long as a dac measures very good or supurb and is fully transparent any will sufice?. Tell me then why you should buy , If price wouldn't matter , a dac that costs €100,- or a dac that costs €2000,- if they are somewhat equal in transparency and measurements?.

Exactly, in fact what you said is precisely the basis of many objections to the "gara sinad"
You should buy a dac based on functions, inputs, maybe even aesthetics, but by now pretty much any modern dac will be musically indistinguishable. It makes no sense to spend a lot of money. The dac is a solved problem in modern audio.

 

[Koeitje]

That's a super simple circuit that demands almost no design effort and can probably be implemented with a single cheap chip.

And yet its not found on 99% of all DACs

 

[Killingbeans]

Don't know what to make of it.

Hobbies gonna hobby.

My personal take from it is that my dream of designing and manufacturing audio gear has shifted drastically from a mindless notion of SOTA needing "improvement" to a much more healthy focus on integration, usability, reliability, feel, looks, features, build quality etc. ect.

 

[hoppy IPA]

For $350 I'd expect a physical power button.

instead of the switch on the back?