Topping E70 randomly went to MAX volume..

[BR52]

I am running my system now for weeks in preamp mode with the 1.04 version ( published in the E70 thread here not available from the website) Additional I have a master mains switch and switch my complete system of if not in use. This force a reboot every day. My be an buffer overflow or something like that is the cause.

 

[peterburke]

A frozen system happens mostly from a firmware problem. Please what is the actual firmware you are running?

I have not checked the firmware as it seems to require a download to check it. Is there another way to check the firmware version? The paper manual does not address firmware. I am reluctant to start tinkering with the firmware as I just received the unit from Amazon and I can return it the way I received it without questions. If I start tinkering it will change the unit from how I received it. I have reported the issue back to the seller on Amazon and am awaiting a reply from them.

 

[strea]

I have not checked the firmware as it seems to require a download to check it. Is there another way to check the firmware version? The paper manual does not address firmware. I am reluctant to start tinkering with the firmware as I just received the unit from Amazon and I can return it the way I received it without questions. If I start tinkering it will change the unit from how I received it. I have reported the issue back to the seller on Amazon and am awaiting a reply from them.

I requested a return from Apos Audio. I understand the whole “dont use a digital preamp” argument in this thread, but Topping also shouldn’t be selling a defective/dangerous product. Noobs will enter this space and damage their hearing over stuff like this. It’s unacceptable.

 

[Trell]

I requested a return from Apos Audio. I understand the whole “dont use a digital preamp” argument in this thread, but Topping also shouldn’t be selling a defective/dangerous product. Noobs will enter this space and damage their hearing over stuff like this. It’s unacceptable.

Is Topping aware of these failure reports? The problem is not wide spread, if this forum is an indication of that, so Topping might not know about it yet.

 

[Sokel]

Is Topping aware of these failure reports? The problem is not wide spread, if this forum is an indication of that, so Topping might not know about it yet.

It's not only about Topping,every such device can behave the same way unless something is hardwired making it bulletproof against the most elemental aspect.
I couldn't care less if that will have an X amount of SINAD penalty,there's enough room for it to still not have inaudible issues.

 

[Trell]

It's not only about Topping,every such device can behave the same way unless something is hardwired making it bulletproof against the most elemental aspect.
I couldn't care less if that will have an X amount of SINAD penalty,there's enough room for it to still not have inaudible issues.

Yeah, but from posts on ASR this particular HW problem of a DAC suddenly turning to full output is not wide spread by any means.

What is much more likely is user error along improper setup where 0 dB will destroy your speakers and/or damage your hearing.

Gain adjustment in monitors/amps and/or passive attenuators is the way to go.

 

[strea]

It's not only about Topping,every such device can behave the same way unless something is hardwired making it bulletproof against the most elemental aspect.
I couldn't care less if that will have an X amount of SINAD penalty,there's enough room for it to still not have inaudible issues.

If every device is capable of this, why has there never been of a report with it from the ADI-2 DAC? Not defending anything here, but that planned to be my next pickup and I've searched far and wide and haven't heard of any issue like this with the RME. Yet, I've heard 3 reports of issues with Topping DAC's doing this within a 1 week span on here? Seems like a more targeted issue to me at the moment.

 

[restorer-john]

I've searched far and wide and haven't heard of any issue like this with the RME.

Why don't you email RME and ask them if there is any way their D/A can accidentally turn on at full output. Explain why you are asking.

 

[strea]

Why don't you email RME and ask them if there is any way their D/A can accidentally turn on at full output. Explain why you are asking.

To be honest, I don't think I have the technical competence or understanding to discuss that back and forth if support questioned me back etc. Perhaps @MC_RME could chime in here on the topic.

 

[Sokel]

If every device is capable of this, why has there never been of a report with it from the ADI-2 DAC? Not defending anything here, but that planned to be my next pickup and I've searched far and wide and haven't heard of any issue like this with the RME. Yet, I've heard 3 reports of issues with Topping DAC's doing this within a 1 week span on here? Seems like a more targeted issue to me at the moment.

I said every device,yes,unless extra care has been given to this matter.
And seems that RME has given that care,after all their target group is pro audio where things are more demanding in terms of reliable functionality.
@restorer-john is right,ask them how they address that,doesn't need to be very technical,just a reassurance that you'll be ok.

 

[MC_RME]

Why don't you email RME and ask them if there is any way their D/A can accidentally turn on at full output. Explain why you are asking.

He already did: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=36955

 

[MaxwellsEq]

If every device is capable of this, why has there never been of a report with it from the ADI-2 DAC? Not defending anything here, but that planned to be my next pickup and I've searched far and wide and haven't heard of any issue like this with the RME. Yet, I've heard 3 reports of issues with Topping DAC's doing this within a 1 week span on here? Seems like a more targeted issue to me at the moment.

I mentioned this happened more then 30 years ago on a professional tape machine. Basically every device that can have a gain or reference level set by a voltage or lookup in a table can suddenly go to max or min. I've even had motor-driven potentiometer start moving and refuse to stop!

DACs are particular prone to this because their default setting should be 100%. The first few DACs I had did not allow volume to be changed, they were at 100% all the time. For some time, DACs which allowed volume changes degraded the sound quality, so people left them at 100%. Now the degradation is minimal and so people depend on DAC volume control to avoid needing a preamp, but they are taking a risk that the DAC will go to a default, which should be 100%.

When someone uses a DAC to change volume, they are not changing gain, but attenuating the default 100%.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I mentioned this happened more then 30 years ago on a professional tape machine. Basically every device that can have a gain or reference level set by a voltage or lookup in a table can suddenly go to max or min. I've even had motor-driven potentiometer start moving and refuse to stop!

DACs are particular prone to this because their default setting should be 100%. The first few DACs I had did not allow volume to be changed, they were at 100% all the time. For some time, DACs which allowed volume changes degraded the sound quality, so people left them at 100%. Now the degradation is minimal and so people depend on DAC volume control to avoid needing a preamp, but they are taking a risk that the DAC will go to a default, which should be 100%.

When someone uses a DAC to change volume, they are not changing gain, but attenuating the default 100%.

Thank you, the evolution of volume control in DACs is very well described. While I have not experienced any problems in this regard, even with the Topping DACs I have used, but I would always limit the possible maximum volume somewhere to protect my speakers. For me, this is the level control on the active speakers.

 

[strea]

He already did: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=36955

No disrespect as I know you’re a legend in the audio game, but I don’t feel as if the question was answered in that thread. I was told to either use passive attenuators or the -5 dBu fixed ref level where I lose the advantage of Auto Ref.

I think the question is why is the ADI-2 DAC different in this regard.. what protections have been put in place to stop it defaulting to 100% volume when utilized in NORMAL use, not with attentuators or slightly sub-par settings.

Perhaps I’m overthinking this off of one bad experience with a low quality control Topping unit and the RME “just works”, but yeah suppose I’m looking for some confidence that I wont nearly lose my hearing with this unit.

 

[Zensō]

Even if you upgrade to the ADI-2, passive attenuators wouldn’t be a bad idea. I’d also recommend plugging your speakers into a power strip that is easily accessible which can be used as a kill switch if needed.

 

[Bleib]

So how safe is Topping L70 for instance, or one of their pre-amps?

 

[bkdc]

What a dangerous event. This is the reason why I leave my DAC in Preamp mode... in case something crazy happens with my headphone amp (which acts as my Preamp)... I have two potential dials to turn down if music somehow blasts for no reason. I also have the desktop audio set-up on a separate power strip. The kill switch mentioned above is another good idea.

It's probably not a wide-spread issue or we might hear about it more often from this community or other communities.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

No disrespect as I know you’re a legend in the audio game, but I don’t feel as if the question was answered in that thread. I was told to either use passive attenuators or the -5 dBu fixed ref level where I lose the advantage of Auto Ref.

I think the question is why is the ADI-2 DAC different in this regard.. what protections have been put in place to stop it defaulting to 100% volume when utilized in NORMAL use, not with attentuators or slightly sub-par settings.

Perhaps I’m overthinking this off of one bad experience with a low quality control Topping unit and the RME “just works”, but yeah suppose I’m looking for some confidence that I wont nearly lose my hearing with this unit.

They haven't done anything because they can't. The most you can hope is that very high quality checks and soak tests on the hardware, firmware and software is performed. Given their engineering reputation and the need to supply pro and semi-pro environments means QC is as good as possible.

BUT, any DAC with in-built attenuation could go to 100%. It's in their bones.

 

[strea]

They haven't done anything because they can't. The most you can hope is that very high quality checks and soak tests on the hardware, firmware and software is performed. Given their engineering reputation and the need to supply pro and semi-pro environments means QC is as good as possible.

BUT, any DAC with in-built attenuation could go to 100%. It's in their bones.

Is the Benchmark DAC3 also digital attenuation or is it analog? Been researching that one as well. Sorry if this is self explanatory at all, still just a noob trying to navigate my first real setup.

It’s difficult seeing as DACs w/ volume control seem to be offered in abundance yet a very dangerous issue looms over all of them?

Are there any quality DACs w/ analog pre amp included rather than digital?

 

[JustJones]

There is no 100% guarantee even with analog pots. I had an Anthem I 225 which uses an analog potentiometer. The early runs had a glitch which caused what Anthem called volume ramping. I had one that did it, ramped the volume knob all the way up, luckily it happened when I was physically turning the amp on and quickly shut it off before it blew my speakers. They did have a firmware update to fix it.