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Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

bogi

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How do you know there are two stages oversampling on this dac? First at 705.6/768k and the second at which frequency? You mentioned about 10 Mhz earlier.
I don't know about audio DAC chip which would not do it in 2 stages. The difrerence between these stages is that the first one is filtered (these digital filters are often user selectable) and the 2nd interpolation stage is simplified without proper filtering. 705.6/768k was used only as an example, with ESS chips it is probably higher. It may also depend on input signal sample rate. I mentioned 10MHz as an approximate value of typical modulator rate. There are more frequencies at which delta sigma modulator can operate. Details can be found in documentation which is available for developers.
In case of choosing PCM to DSD upsampling, would it be better or more close to 'second stage' than the former?
If this dac plays native DSD512 at 44.1Khz, which is 22.57 Mhz according to an earlier post, this frequency is higher than 10 Mhz, so does DSD do a second stage aswell?
On ESS chips: With DSD input you skip complete oversampling (both stages). DSD signal then goes through digital volume control to delta sigma modulator input. Input signal rate for example 22.57 MHz is not changed during volume processing. So delta sigma modulator will operate on 22.57 MHz and its output is filtered by D/A stage. It works so on each input DSD rate starting from 2.8 MHz. Modulator operating rate is adapted to input DSD signal rate.

With other chips, if you use the so called direct DSD path (which is not available for ESS DACs), you skip also the delta sigma modulator (DSD signal is already modulated) so the DSD signal comes directly to D/A stage, skipping complete digital processing, which is in action with PCM input. DAC volume control is not possible with direct DSD path.

By the way, volume control for DSD file playback is not available in usual software players too, because they don't know to perform DSP on DSD content. The exception is HQPlayer, which is able of volume control, parametric equalization, convolution and rate conversion also with DSD content without any intermediate conversion to PCM.
 
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bravomail

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So, my Topping E50 came yday. It replaced E30. E50 has bigger enclosure and (importantly, in anticipation of PA5) balanced outputs. I still kept my L30 which is dwarf in comparison. My stack is ruined :)
My WIndows 10 PC still listed it as E30, as nothing has changed, so I had to manually remove E30 in Device Manager, refresh, and now it shows as E50.
So, can u hear 112dB vs 120db SINAD, sighted, etc? Not really. At least not definitively. There is not any degradation, that's for sure. ;)
And then, I played with filters. F1 is linear phase, fast rolloff (default) and F3 is minimum phase, fast rolloff. Sound is preferable with F3, almost louder, that is if u don't need spatial qualities. F1 is still winning in 3d binaural audio test.
Watch this video from 1:00 minute mark (with headphones, not speakers)

 

yanm

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E50 has volume control on itself. And the unit is default off when plugged in DC.
I will get my E50 sometimes in the next weeks. Regarding volume control, what is the starting volume when using the auto on/off feature? Is it possible to set a default startup volume? I’ve this feature in my receiver and it is mighty useful.

Just received my E50: default startup volume is -30dB and then whatever volume it was when it last went in standby. Interestingly enough the E50 remembered the last volume setting even after being unpowered the whole night - I was not expecting this. Let’s see if it still remembers after one week without power.

I’ve yet to understand how the auto on/off feature works… it is not working for me with coax in. I will try when I’m back from holidays with the USB out of the Bluesound Node.
 
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half_dog

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ATTENTION TO SCALE
 

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bravomail

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Important note on using E50 outputs. My E50 is connected via RCA to L30 headphone amp and via balanced to PA5 power amp. I chose O3 - both outputs option. However I then noticed that E50 will sometimes show wrong output in its screen, and won't output to L30 (single ended) for example. To solve this minor issue u need to turn off/standby E50, turn the power on the devices u want to use (either or both RCA and balanced), and then turn on E50. It will detect these devices. Less than ideal, I'd prefer constant unconditional output on both RCA and balanced. :(
 

half_dog

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What's your point? You think 0.1dB increments is a "good" meaningful scale??
Sorry, I forgot to tag a post of someone who was debating about those two DACs and their "differences" - and I just got myself wrong again, the DACs were E50 and KTB, although KTB are almost the same thing in numbers and filter related to D10s. So I offered myself to measure them and display that there no meaningful (audible cof) differences.
 

SchwarzeWolke

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Just a short question especially to @JohnYang1997:
Can I use the E50 without any driver installed with Win10? I want to use it with a company laptop and can't install anything. Does this work with USB 2.0 stock drivers?
 

bravomail

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Just a short question especially to @JohnYang1997:
Can I use the E50 without any driver installed with Win10? I want to use it with a company laptop and can't install anything. Does this work with USB 2.0 stock drivers?
There is driver installation happening, when u plug it in, but it uses internal Microsoft driver. Not sure if internal driver install can be blocked via policies. In some companies they will block unsupported USB devices, or they will block writing to USB. Not sure if this applies to audio USB.
 

bogi

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SchwarzeWolke

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Should I use a dedicated wall charger or can I use an USB port from the same hub without getting a ground loop? Would use the hub from my display to connect the E50 and also power it.
 

bogi

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Should I use a dedicated wall charger or can I use an USB port from the same hub without getting a ground loop?
You will not get ground loop with any 2 pole wall charger as well when getting power from USB port of the same hub.
Ground loop current could flow from other reason, for example between your computer and headamp through your DAC, but rarely if they both are connected to the same wall socket.
 

MeZoX

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You will not get ground loop with any 2 pole wall charger as well when getting power from USB port of the same hub.
Ground loop current could flow from other reason, for example between your computer and headamp through your DAC, but rarely if they both are connected to the same wall socket.
wouldnt the balanced connection remove any ground loop anyways ?
 

bogi

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wouldnt the balanced connection remove any ground loop anyways ?
Yes and no. ;)
 
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