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Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

Dac-man

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This is really funny because it shows you have no idea what you are talking about:

3. Ripple & noise are measured at 20MHz
What’s the switching frequency? What’s the audible bandwidth ripple noise you measured?
 

dominikz

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I have conducted 100’s of blind tests that have proven to many people that all of the measurements used here are only just a good starting point to achieving great sound. And it’s even possible to have horrible sound from a DAC with 120dB SINAD.
So could you share the test protocols and structured results of some of those?
I've done my share of blind tests too and my takeaway is not aligned with yours - i.e. I find that most non-broken DACs cannot be reliably distinguished if the listening test is properly controlled (double-blind, precisely level matched, without obvious 'tells' when switching). Without the controls in place I also often perceive differences - after all we're all human.
Of course you could argue that I am deaf but that would be ad-hominem. :)

For me SINAD is only a QC test. I only use it to verify if a finished design meets spec.
Should we read this to mean that you are a DAC designer, possibly also selling such devices? If so it might be good to request from @BDWoody or @amirm to assign a 'Manufacturer' tag.
 

Dac-man

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I’m not selling anything here. I guess if you’re right then all of the DAC’s that Amir has measured that cost more than the $20 Meizu dongle are only for suckers. Unless you need Toslink or SPDIF input. Then $100 should get you the best possible sound with human ears.

Case closed this forum can shut down now. The holy grail of audibly has been long achieved. Be happy with what you have and take up a new hobby.
 

dominikz

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I’m not selling anything here. I guess if you’re right then all of the DAC’s that Amir has measured that cost more than the $20 Meizu dongle are only for suckers. Unless you need Toslink or SPDIF input. Then $100 should get you the best possible sound with human ears.

Case closed this forum can shut down now. The holy grail of audibly has been long achieved. Be happy with what you have and take up a new hobby.
Sorry but you are now building an unnecessary straw-man argument. No one is saying that everyone should just buy the cheapest well-measuring DAC.

There are many reasons to select one DAC over the other - features, looks, warranty, reparability, performance in specific use-cases, reliability, etc... I'm absolutely not trying to dissuade (or persuade) anyone from buying one DAC over the other. I just hope people make their choice based on reliable data.

E.g. I bought the E50 because I use it as a very clean signal generator for audio measurements, and because I needed an extremely high SNR DAC for a specific use in sound production. Not because it sounds better when used for regular listening to music (it sounds the same as my other DACs when it is precisely level-matched).

Personally I've never seen any controlled listening test that would support the claim that well-measuring DACs can be reliably told apart under controlled conditions. This is why the claim is problematic (albeit a common result of uncontrolled tests).

Anyway - hope you don't take this to heart - being asked to substantiate claims made is not meant to be confrontational. I'll drop out now and wish you a nice day! :)
 

Dac-man

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Think of not being able to hear the difference between audio gear as a gift. One that will save lots of money. Unfortunately I’m not as gifted as some folks.
 

dominikz

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Think of not being able to hear the difference between audio gear as a gift. One that will save lots of money. Unfortunately I’m not as gifted as some folks.
I knew I would be told I was deaf at some point in this exchange - kudos for doing it implicitly! :p
 

threni

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Think of not being able to hear the difference between audio gear as a gift. One that will save lots of money. Unfortunately I’m not as gifted as some folks.
A gift would be you providing the names of two devices which measure identically (as far as human hearing is concerned) and yet where there's an audible difference which you can demonstrate a double-blind test. That would be a lot more use than your "my mum says I'm special" shtick. Golden ears only exist for sighted tests.
 

Orion76

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The Topping E50 appears to be heavily affected by the quality of the USB power supplying it, so I've been experimenting with different 1A+ USB power supplies for it. So far I've tried a number of mostly phone chargers around the house and found one iPhone charger to be the best so far. The noisy 1A USB output on an amplifier of mine sounds the worst of all. Does anyone have any better recommendations for USB power supplies to try with it?
This is the one I use-


edit- sorry, just noticed that you asked for a USB power supply.
 
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dsnyder0cnn

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I'm starting to use my E50 + L50 a bit more today (coming from the DX3 Pro+). So far, the only functionality that I'm missing is that the E50 does not maintain separate volume settings for SE, BAL, and SE + BAL output settings. I wish it did since I generally want -37 dB when I'm using the SE outputs to my active monitors (iLoud Micro Monitors) but -0 dB when I'm using the BAL outputs to the L50 for headphones listening. Oh well. It does not take too long to adjust manually. Or, I suppose I could set the volume on the L50 to max and just use the volume control on the E50 for everything.

Besides that, this combo looks and sounds wonderful.


20220331_105658 - edit.jpg
 

Gradius

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peng

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Hello, I see that there are 53 pages so forgive me if my question has already been answered before. Anyway, to day Amazn.ca has what they call a lightning deal so for $270 I could no longer resist buying the E50 even though I don't believe in MQA. I wouldn't want to pay for the feature, but again, for CAD 270 it's fine.

Now my question is, just to use the thing with non MQA coded sources/contents, would the signal stay clear from, untouched by any hardware/software associated the MQA feature? If it is not 100% untouched, would there be any remnant effects of the stuff, even on paper?

With any luck I hope @JohnYang1997 or other experienced knowledgeable users may see my post and don't mind answering my question. Thank you all for your help in anticipation.

 

dsnyder0cnn

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to use the thing with non MQA coded sources/contents, would the signal stay clear from, untouched by any hardware/software associated the MQA feature? If it is not 100% untouched, would there be any remnant effects of the stuff, even on paper?
That's how Amir tested it. If you're happy with his results, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. I'm listening to the E50 + L50 playing into E-MU Wood Series Teak headphones. Playing non-MQA content (24/bit, 96 kHz rip from a DVD-Audio disc). The sound is so good that I'm probably not going to get much done today. ;)

Screen Shot 2022-04-02 at 9.51.58 AM.png

PSX_20220402_095812.jpeg
 

peng

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That's how Amir tested it. If you're happy with his results, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. I'm listening to the E50 + L50 playing into E-MU Wood Series Teak headphones. Playing non-MQA content (24/bit, 96 kHz rip from a DVD-Audio disc). The sound is so good that I'm probably not going to get much done today. ;)

View attachment 197211
View attachment 197212

Thank you very much. Are you using the unbalanced, or TRS to XLR balanced connections. That would be another $21 that I guess I can save since Amir's measurements show the unbalanced connections were just as good.

511QwdizFnL._AC_SL1200_.jpg
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Thank you very much. Are you using the unbalanced, or TRS to XLR balanced connections. That would be another $21 that I guess I can save since Amir's measurements show the unbalanced connections were just as good.

511QwdizFnL._AC_SL1200_.jpg
The L50 and E50 both use 1/4 inch TRS for balanced connections, so the cables I'm using to connect them are 1/4 inch TRS on both ends. These cables were included when I purchased the stack from Apos.

 

peng

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The L50 and E50 both use 1/4 inch TRS for balanced connections, so the cables I'm using to connect them are 1/4 inch TRS on both ends. These cables were included when I purchased the stack from Apos.


Of course, I missed that you bought the stack lol..
 

bathroomskank

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Can you use the balanced connection to connect a Topping PA5 and the RCA unbalanced to a subwoofer ?

If not, is there a work-around to plug a subwoofer ?

Thank you
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Can you use the balanced connection to connect a Topping PA5 and the RCA unbalanced to a subwoofer ?

If not, is there a work-around to plug a subwoofer ?

Thank you
That's exactly what I'm doing. Follow this link for details.

 

bathroomskank

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You then let the sub applying the low-pass filter ?

Are there cheaper decent DAC with either both balanced/unbalanced output or (maybe better) a subwoofer output ?
 
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