Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

[doug2761]

@amirm Wishing that you had affinity for a display color other than amber. Amber displays remind me of my first computer with 300 baud modem and floppy disks. Romantic times but the flashbacks to late night coding and short project deadlines puts me off. If you could say you like a different color then maybe Topping would make some changes. Maybe voice liking user selected display colors like on RME ADI or ability for end user to turn the display off.

 

[AnalogSteph]

No, because there's no ADC in the world that can capture more than around 21 bits of audio. The noise created from the cosmic background radiation affecting the actual circuitry is around -123 dB or so, and 24 bits goes down to about -144.

Thermal noise != cosmic background radiation, but OK. The limit for dynamic range these days is about 130 dB(A), which in fact does equate to 21 bits and change. This is sufficient to cover almost the entire dynamic range of a good LD condenser microphone in one piece. Composite ADC setups to cover as much as 142 dB(A) also exist (e.g. Sound Devices MixPre II series).

It is quite hard to reproduce more than about 110 dB (18 bits) at all. A DAC with performance beyond that is primarily useful for making up for mismatched gain and such, which is not uncommon (e.g. you might have high-sensitivity speaker drivers on a standard 26-29.5 dB power amp). This permits reducing analog complexity. Likewise, you can just use digital volume control - in fact DACs have already surpassed a good many all-analog preamps in practical use (noise level for a decent one might be 3.5-4 µV(A), the E50 unbalanced already makes it to 2 µV(A) - yes, the analog preamp has higher maximum output, but most hi-fi power amps will clip below 2 Vrms input anyway).
In terms of material, there probably is not one acoustic recording out there covering more than about 90 dB (15 bits). And that is quite enough to cover an uncomfortable amount of dynamic range for domestic reproduction.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

We’re all different.

Some people here appear to be able to afford every new ‘upgrade’ that comes along.

We used to talk about diminishing returns in regard to the price-quality ratio of different products, and having to spend more and more for less and less of an improvement.

Swap price for ‘next version’ and I think we’re seeing that here. And those small improvements appear to often be numerical rather than something you can hear.

When Amir reviewed the D10s he concluded “Measured performance is stellar for the category leaving just enough gap for state-of-the-art DACs to make a living with higher performance and cost.”

SOTA then was the Okto DAC8 Stereo with a SINAD of 122. This has 121. Is anyone going to claim they can hear the difference?

The Okto cost $1,000. That was around 13 months ago.

Sit in awe at where we are.

 

[daftcombo]

If your speakers only accepts RCA. Then you also need to connect E50's rca to L50. So both RCA and TRS are connected between E50 and L50.

I don't understand. Is it really ok to connect the E50 to the L50 with RCA and TLR at the same time??

 

[JohnYang1997]

I don't understand. Is it really ok to connect the E50 to the L50 with RCA and TLR at the same time??

Of course yes.

 

[respice finem]

Having so many products with a short shelf life is confusing to the consumer and expensive from a marketing and production stand point. While I have no idea what the tooling and manufacturing costs might be they are clearly not prohibitive but I would imagine that they are not efficient and as such Topping is leaving profit on the table.

I own an original D30. Solid product. I avidly read the reviews here and basically Topping has paralyzed me. Every 2-3 months there is something new that has a marginal improvement in performance. In my mind, one of these days they are going to actually come up with something NEW due to their churn. So I will not buy any of these slightly different products. Maybe I am the wrong demographic and they are targeting new users? If so, I do not see them being less confused than me and perhaps looking elsewhere to avoid the clutter.

Spectacular engineering meets mediocre planning and marketing. It is why most startups fail. Not a risk here but I definitely see market share risk due to the muddy waters.

I'm thinking quite the opposite direction in one aspect: If (and why should they not) Topping one day would issue a high-grade AV processor and /or AVR, in a few years we might see some established AVR companies coming "belly up". In the multichannel segment are the largest remaining quality deficits, at least on the "parametric" side. Seeing expensive AVR/AV-processors performing measurably worse than amps from the last millenium is very "underwhelming", to me at least.

 

[daftcombo]

Of course yes.

And the current will flow through both at the same time?

If yes, can we use both outputs of the E50 simultaneously to feed a sub + mains?

 

[respice finem]

We’re all different.

Some people here appear to be able to afford every new ‘upgrade’ that comes along.

We used to talk about diminishing returns in regard to the price-quality ratio of different products, and having to spend more and more for less and less of an improvement.

Swap price for ‘next version’ and I think we’re seeing that here. And those small improvements appear to often be numerical rather than something you can hear.

When Amir reviewed the D10s he concluded “Measured performance is stellar for the category leaving just enough gap for state-of-the-art DACs to make a living with higher performance and cost.”

SOTA then was the Okto DAC8 Stereo with a SINAD of 122. This has 121. Is anyone going to claim they can hear the difference?

The Okto cost $1,000. That was around 13 months ago.

Sit in awe at where we are.

A blind test would probably show we're deaf
But I guess those who actually swap hardware because the new one measures "1%" better are not that many.

 

[dorirod]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping E50 balanced USB DAC. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $269. I just reviewed its companion headphone amplifier, the Topping L50.

The E50 takes my favorite orange LED display and makes it even nicer!

Thanks for the review. Since everything technical seems great, I guess we get to quibble about the little things. Does the display stay on volume on this one? I'm in the orange camp btw, love this color.

I don't get the lack of Bluetooth though, and I'll also throw in with the camp looking for PEQ and sub crossover functionality, hopefully it's in the works.

 

[JohnYang1997]

And the current will flow through both at the same time?

If yes, can we use both outputs of the E50 simultaneously to feed a sub + mains?

There will be current flowing through at the same time. But they are not joined together shorting each other. L50 has relay switches for input selection and the toggle switch is at the front.

Yes, you can. That's what people been doing for a long time. And I also recommend splitting balanced output to two for both sub and the mains if your sub takes balanced signal. More usual case /more sensible to me is to feed the main from the sub's pass through. It's pretty flexible.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

A blind test would probably show we're deaf
But I guess those who actually swap hardware because the new one measures "1%" better are not that many.

I love and thank them all.

I’m convinced we wouldn’t be where we are now were it not for the people who selflessly go without food to buy every new upgrade.

I thank them from the bottom of my heart. I now have a range of products from which to choose which give me headphone listening transparent to the source for as little as £260. Their many sacrifices are appreciated.

 

[Rottmannash]

ES9068AS

How does that chip compare in performance and specs to the one in the E30?

 

[JohnYang1997]

How does that chip compare in performance and specs to the one in the E30?

Why not just read the measurements in the review....

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Given this level of performance, what is the justification for the D90SE @ $800?

 

[Patrick1958]

I agree with some members mentioning Topping is releasing lots of new products over the past couple of years.
However praise is in place for the excellent measurements and above all..... they release matching headphone amplifiers for their dacs, something you do not see that much with other brands leave behind the spare exceptions.
If not, the eye also wants something

 

[Benedium]

Exactly—why is Topping releasing so many similar products? It seems like they would cannibalizes each other’s sales.

Maybe same strategy as Samsung for phones? Compared to Apple that is...

 

[respice finem]

I love and thank them all.

I’m convinced we wouldn’t be where we are now were it not for the people who selflessly go without food to buy every new upgrade.

I thank them from the bottom of my heart. I now have a range of products from which to choose which give me headphone listening transparent to the source for as little as £260. Their many sacrifices are appreciated.

And last but not least, kudos to those who buy gear and send it in for testing, and to Amir who just faintly called "mercy" from underneath the huge pile... (my inner ear had heard it)

 

[Nango]

You can't hear -120 dB signals in music anyway (if it could be recorded in real life situations anyway).

It's not like you could ever hear the difference between -120dB and -140dB distortion and noise anyway.

Right. But does not matter. If Topping delivers, believers wanna have it.

 

[respice finem]

Still better than buying "snake oil" so called high end products based on belief

 

[Vini darko]

Given this level of performance, what is the justification for the D90SE @ $800?

The never more popular mqa
More inputs , more output voltage.
Ooo and those silly volume buttons.