Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

[SHENZHENAUDIO]

@JohnYang1997 If possible, please ask ShenzhenAudio to include balanced cable with their E50+L50 combo. They are treating the combo like the E30+L30 by including the same pair of RCA

TOPPING E50 DAC + L30 Headphone Amplifier + RCA Cable Combo (shenzhenaudio.com)

Edit: it's nothing wrong but feels like a cost cutting measure

Good idea, we added TRS cable, https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...lifier-rca-cable-combo?variant=40901261885591

 

[Megaken]

Do you need balanced outputs?

Nope. Is the chip better?

 

[Lupin]

Nope. Is the chip better?

No point in "upgrading" if you don't need the extra connections.
Technically the chip is better as in the E50 has a higher SINAD than the E30. I don't believe for a second that it will be actually audible.

Keep your money in your pocket for something that actually does make a difference.

 

[HuubFranssen]

I tried the D10 and D50s dacs before I jumped in the deep for a D90se. Only this last Topping sounded superb and completely flawless. Together with an nCore 500mp amp the core of my system doesn’t need replacements anymore. Thanks to this forum; I like gear that measures well AND sounds good (enough).

Do the people at this forum really think all these wonderful Topping dacs sound the same? And that the huge difference in costs is only determined by the feature set?

 

[Megaken]

No point in "upgrading" if you don't need the extra connections.
Technically the chip is better as in the E50 has a higher SINAD than the E30. I don't believe for a second that it will be actually audible.

Keep your money in your pocket for something that actually does make a difference.

Yep, you are correct.

 

[Lupin]

Do the people at this forum really think all these wonderful Topping dacs sound the same? And that the huge difference in costs is only determined by the feature set?

I would say read some threads and you'll find the answer soon enough.

It is not just feature set. Getting to a SINAD of 123 takes some serious engineering and comes with a higher(er) BOM, Topping is not a charity eventually they want to earn back that money. Is it actually an audible difference.. general consensus on ASR is that it is not.

It better not be as Amir calls all these DACs transparent. Amir would have to go back to the drawingboard and rewrite a whole lot of reviews if the DACs would sound different and therefore are not transparent.

 

[PhnomPenhPaul]

I have a couple of quick questions for @JohnYang1997. What is the default [factory reset] output level for the E50? On the D90SE thread here on ASR [where the same question was raised in respect of that model] if I understood you correctly you said that for some of your company's DAC's it's set at full output, on others -30dB. If it is the former on the E50 can I please ask that this please be changed [by an update to the firmware] to an attenuated setting to avoid accidentally outputting full volume on an inadvertent factory reset. [I am assuming it is possible to do this for the E50 as you said it was possible on the D90SE]. Thanks.

 

[Moosi]

I tried the D10 and D50s dacs before I jumped in the deep for a D90se

D10 (non s) had issues as far as I know. D50s also had issues, I believe with OP-amps being bottlenecks to the chips. However, those are changeable with sockets. He says the E30 is much better than the D50s with the stock op-amps. Put some decent op-amps in there and the page should flip.

.

 

[GWolfman]

Another exemplary performance from Topping, landing it almost at top of all DACs ever tested:

@amirm Is there a high resolution of this somewhere, or am I doing it wrong? Even if I download it and zoom way in the text is super fuzzy and barely legible. Thanks!

 

[Lupin]

I tried the D10 and D50s dacs before I jumped in the deep for a D90se. Only this last Topping sounded superb and completely flawless. Together with an nCore 500mp amp the core of my system doesn’t need replacements anymore. Thanks to this forum; I like gear that measures well AND sounds good (enough).

Do the people at this forum really think all these wonderful Topping dacs sound the same? And that the huge difference in costs is only determined by the feature set?

D10 (non s) had issues as far as I know. D50s also had issues, I believe with OP-amps being bottlenecks to the chips. However, those are changeable with sockets. He says the E30 is much better than the D50s with the stock op-amps. Put some decent op-amps in there and the page should flip.

.

I find it hard to take that guy serious as he also claims he can hear a difference between SE and BAL out of a Topping AMP while John said the BAL XLR out is just a convenience connector and both SE and BAL are connected to the same output stage.

 

[bahamot]

D10 (non s) had issues as far as I know. D50s also had issues, I believe with OP-amps being bottlenecks to the chips. However, those are changeable with sockets. He says the E30 is much better than the D50s with the stock op-amps. Put some decent op-amps in there and the page should flip.

.

In his Topping EX5 review he said 0.0001% THD, 0.0001% fun. What a joke. I couldn't watch his reviews.

 

[GWolfman]

E and L lines are meant to be lower cost, efficiently designed with performance/price ratio maximized.

A and D series are in general for new designs, more premium products with still good performance/price but more about new cool stuff.

And it's expected for E and L lines to be more popular.

Of course D10 series is an exception. But to me it serves an purpose. D10 Balanced already started to make sense with E50 and L50 lauch. It will make more sense when more different products coming.

I have lots of concepts and visions. Some things are actually planned in 2019 and won't be released before next year.

We want a DSP-enabled product (with PEQ) please! DAC, headphone amp, both, or combo; we'll take it!

 

[solderdude]

I find it hard to take that guy serious as he also claims he can hair a difference between SE and BAL out of a Topping AMP while John said the BAL XLR out is just a convenience connector and both SE and BAL are connected to the same output stage.

It is technically possible to hear differences between balanced out and SE out even on the same headphone.
The reason for this would be in the headphone cable and not in the output of the amps.
When using a somewhat longer 3 wire cable or a 4 wire cable with a low impedance headphone and a 3-wire cable that has a relatively high resistance return wire the stereo imaging will be affected which could lead to small but detectable differences.

With most reviewers, however, chances it is placebo is higher than of electrical origin.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I have a couple of quick questions for @JohnYang1997. What is the default [factory reset] output level for the E50? On the D90SE thread here on ASR [where the same question was raised in respect of that model] if I understood you correctly you said that for some of your company's DAC's it's set at full output, on others -30dB. If it is the former on the E50 can I please ask that this please be changed [by an update to the firmware] to an attenuated setting to avoid accidentally outputting full volume on an inadvertent factory reset. [I am assuming it is possible to do this for the E50 as you said it was possible on the D90SE]. Thanks.

E50 is -30dB default.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Regarding the ‘grading’ debate, the only grading I want is ‘transparent’ or not.

If humans can’t hear distortion below 120dB, I really don’t care that one DAC has below 125dB and the next below 130dB.

These should be green/red = pass/fail, or possibly that with an amber section meaning ‘technically possible you’ll hear this in ideal conditions, but not it real-world listening.

If Amir tests 1,000 more DACs, my understanding of how the system works now, if Amir tested 1,000 more DACs, all with distortion below 120dB, some of those at the bottom of the list would go into the red category, which is clearly absurd.

 

[respice finem]

But then, the differences between the DACs digital filters can be audible, barely, but they can...
And more output level = "better" subjective reception in not level matched subjective comparisons.

Ceterum censeo: comparing DACs "by ear" is a minefield.

 

[aandres_gm]

It is technically possible to hear differences between balanced out and SE out even on the same headphone.
The reason for this would be in the headphone cable and not in the output of the amps.
When using a somewhat longer 3 wire cable or a 4 wire cable with a low impedance headphone and a 3-wire cable that has a relatively high resistance return wire the stereo imaging will be affected which could lead to small but detectable differences.

With most reviewers, however, chances it is placebo is higher than of electrical origin.

I'm not sure what cables he used, but in his video he mentioned differences were apparent because of the balanced vs single ended output stages, with one having a better soundstage and definition than the other. After it was pointed out in the comments that both output plugs are not balanced, he claimed it surely had something to do with the plug.

I'd bet on placebo tbh

 

[solderdude]

He had to use different cables where the SE wire could have been a poorer quality 3 wire. We just don't know.
The differences could (but most likely are not) still come from different cables especially when he hears differences in sound stage as that would be affected most.

In any case.. the video has nothing to do with the E50 (as the E30 was reviewed in the vid) .

 

[usern]

I tried the D10 and D50s dacs before I jumped in the deep for a D90se. Only this last Topping sounded superb and completely flawless. Together with an nCore 500mp amp the core of my system doesn’t need replacements anymore. Thanks to this forum; I like gear that measures well AND sounds good (enough).

Do the people at this forum really think all these wonderful Topping dacs sound the same? And that the huge difference in costs is only determined by the feature set?

D10s and D50s have unbalanced outputs (2V). If you now compare D90se XLR output (4V) you are going to get more max volume which might explain the difference you hear.

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

If this is an ESS DAC, does it have adjustable PLL settings? If not is the stock setting forgiving enough for high jitter sources?