Topping E50 / L50 Impressions

[wacomme]

I'm considering a used DX7 Pro, but I've read about volume control issues and that it's been discontinued (not sure why). Also, while the DX7 has a great dac, the amp section seems to be lacking. For $350 is seems like a good deal, but I'm hesitant.

I'd like to go separates, and the E50/L50 sound wonderful, but I go back and forth between headphones and desktop (powered) speakers. How much of a bother is it that the volume setting for headphones and speakers are NOT remembered? What's the default setting - no volume or max? And can the volume setting be changed with the same volume knob - is that the L50 for both headphones and speakers?

Anyway, if changing volume is a PITA, and I don't want to opt for passive speakers, it looks like dac/amp combos are really my only option - probably either the EX5 or DX5. Other than the potential for ground loop noise (thus wanting balanced inputs) I love my DX3 Pro+. However, it's a bit underpowered - probably fine, but I would like a bit more power for future proofing. Thus, I presume the DX5 would be a better option for me than the EX5, correct?

 

[Berwhale]

Anyway, if changing volume is a PITA, and I don't want to opt for passive speakers, it looks like dac/amp combos are really my only option - probably either the EX5 or DX5. Other than the potential for ground loop noise (thus wanting balanced inputs) I love my DX3 Pro+. However, it's a bit underpowered - probably fine, but I would like a bit more power for future proofing. Thus, I presume the DX5 would be a better option for me than the EX5, correct?

If you don't have a ground loop issue and the DX3 Pro+ is driving your headphones to acceptable volume, then there is no need to upgrade.

 

[wacomme]

If you don't have a ground loop issue and the DX3 Pro+ is driving your headphones to acceptable volume, then there is no need to upgrade.

I've been plagued by ground loop issues for years. It comes and goes. Right now it's ok, but it'll likely surface again. And the DX3Pro+ volume is marginally ok. It would be nice to have a bit more power. Thus, I would like to return the DX3Pro+ with the Amazon return window and buy something else with more power and balanced inputs. I would prefer separate DAC and AMP, but a combo might be better, especially if I'm alternating between headphones and speakers.

 

[Berwhale]

I've been plagued by ground loop issues for years. It comes and goes. Right now it's ok, but it'll likely surface again. And the DX3Pro+ volume is marginally ok. It would be nice to have a bit more power. Thus, I would like to return the DX3Pro+ with the Amazon return window and buy something else with more power and balanced inputs. I would prefer separate DAC and AMP, but a combo might be better, especially if I'm alternating between headphones and speakers.

My experience...

I replaced a single ended Topping D50s/A50s/P50 stack with a balanced output Topping EX5, primarily to resolve a ground loop issue. The x50 stack was fine with my previous active monitors (Tannoy Reveal 402's) presumably because the 402's had a 2 pin power cable and hence offered no path to ground.

My current active monitors (iLoud MTM's) have a 3-pin power input and I experienced a ground loop as soon as I introduced them to my setup. Prior to moving to the EX5, I solved the ground loop with a cheap USB isolator and by moving to an optical connection (I installed a TOSLINK bracket in my PC connected to SPDIF header on my motherboard). Both of these solutions place some (likely inaudible) compromises on the sample rate for the connection between my PC and DAC so when the EX5 came out I decided to give it a go.

I've been extremely happy with the EX5 (Bigger screen/volume control, single box, less cables, independent volume controls for HP and Pre-amp, etc.) Personally, I don't miss the additional power that in theory the A50s can provide, the EX5 has sufficient power drive all of my headphones to volumes past what I'm comfortable listening at. I also tested both setups on my desk (with headphones) and I really couldn't say that one sounded any different to the other.

(My x50 stack as been retained and moved to a standalone headphone setup driven by a ChromeCast Audio, so no risk of ground loops there).

Would I have bought the DX5 if it had been available when the EX5 came out? Quite possibly, I can afford the extra £/$100 and the better measurements and HP power would, as you say, provide some 'future proofing'. You don't state what headphones you are using now or what your purchasing intentions are in future, but you should consider if the extra $100 for the DX5 over the EX5 would be better put towards some headphones.

 

[wacomme]

Has the ESS IMD Hump in the DX5 ever been corrected with firmware?

 

[raif71]

Yes. My challenge when using the E50 + L50 stack with active monitors is that I prefer to use the L50's volume knob when listening to headphones, which means setting attenuation at or close to 0 dB on the E50. Unfortunately, unlike my Topping Pre90 and DX3 Pro+, the E50 does not "remember" separate volume settings for each output. So, if I ever forget to turn the E50 back down to -35 dB or so before I switch from headphones to speakers, I'll get blasted!

I've gone back to using the DX3 Pro+ at my desk for now, but my long-term plan is to upgrade to passive speakers (GR-Research LGK2.0). With the E50 + L50 + PA5 stack, I'll have fully independent control of levels using the two physical volume knobs, so no surprises when I switch the L50 off and it passes-through to the speaker amp.

View attachment 203737

I'm thinking a passive preamp with balanced in/out and a volume knob might do well to replace the pa5 if one has a powered speaker?

 

[wacomme]

I'm thinking about either the DX5 or the 10Db + A30Pro.

Just wondering, being MQA, does the DX5 allow PC volume control as well as AMP/DAC volume control, or is it limited to just DX5 volume control?

With the 10Db +A30Pro combo, could I control the headphones and speakers with both the A30Pro volume knob and PC volume control?

 

[Berwhale]

Has the ESS IMD Hump in the DX5 ever been corrected with firmware?

Fixing the ESS hump usually requires changes to the physical circuitry connecting the DAC chip to the rest of the board. There's a lot more about this here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-hump-revisited-khadas-tone-board-v1-3.30136/

With respect DX5, the IMD hump is pretty minor and only visible because IMD distortion is so low. It's also unlikely to be audible. There's an interesting thread about simulating the hump in software and testing audibility here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-hump-style-distortions-to-audio-files.30758/

 

[Berwhale]

I'm thinking about either the DX5 or the 10Db + A30Pro.

Just wondering, being MQA, does the DX5 allow PC volume control as well as AMP/DAC volume control, or is it limited to just DX5 volume control?

With the 10Db +A30Pro combo, could I control the headphones and speakers with both the A30Pro volume knob and PC volume control?

Thankfully, MQA can't stop you changing your PC volume control. If the MQA light ever illuminates on on my EX5, something is broken as far as i'm concerned (all my Windows audio is EQ'd with EqualizerAPO and resampled to 96k).

 

[wacomme]

Is anyone running the 10Db + A30Pro combination? What do you think? What's involved to switch between headphones and powered speakers? And what volume controls control what?

I'm asking because I'm trying to decide between the DX5 and the 10Db + A30Pro combo for my home desktop setup - headphone and powered speakers. The DX5 is a simple all-in-one solution, but I would prefer separates. I also love the power of the A30Pro for future-proofing. But is it a hassle with the 10Db + A30Pro to switch back and forth between headphones and speakers?

 

[dananski]

My challenge when using the E50 + L50 stack with active monitors is that I prefer to use the L50's volume knob when listening to headphones

I just ordered an L50 (E50 should follow when in stock) and thought I'd look for a thread here to find out which volume control is better quality. Is your comment here down to audio quality or just a preference for the physical dial?

I'd have thought the E50 volume control would do digital scaling, thus losing dynamic range below max volume, while the L50's dial could be better or worse - no idea.

 

[raif71]

Is anyone running the 10Db + A30Pro combination? What do you think? What's involved to switch between headphones and powered speakers? And what volume controls control what?

I'm asking because I'm trying to decide between the DX5 and the 10Db + A30Pro combo for my home desktop setup - headphone and powered speakers. The DX5 is a simple all-in-one solution, but I would prefer separates. I also love the power of the A30Pro for future-proofing. But is it a hassle with the 10Db + A30Pro to switch back and forth between headphones and speakers?

you mean the D10b, right?

I have the D10b and A30Pro... Here is how it looks

I

I don't use it for external speakers. Got another setup for that. Anyway if I need it for external speakers, switch off the amp and that switches to the speakers. If you need volume control and if the external speakers are powered, you can control the volume on it or you can put in between the amp and the speakers, passive preamp with volume control and you can then set the speakers to a max volume and use the passive preamp to control the volume.

 

[wacomme]

you mean the D10b, right?

Yes - the Topping D10b. I'm considering the D10b + A30Pro, the D10b + A90, and maybe the E50 + L50. I'm trying to figure out the advantages of each of these combinations.

I currently have the DX5 and I don't really like it (will return it). I prefer separates. The volume knob feels cheap, and I feel amp power is lacking.

 

[raif71]

Yes - the Topping D10b. I'm considering the D10b + A30Pro, the D10b + A90, and maybe the E50 + L50. I'm trying to figure out the advantages of each of these combinations.

I currently have the DX5 and I don't really like it (will return it). I prefer separates. The volume knob feels cheap, and I feel amp power is lacking.

My setup D10b and L50

Topping L50 Review (Headphone Amp)

I've just got in from work, switched the amp on, and have got a blinking LED power light and no sound! I'm really not very happy. I've had this amp in my possession for a total of three days. I played it for 2 or 3 hours last night. I come home tonight and it doesn't work??

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[wacomme]

you mean the D10b, right?

I have the D10b and A30Pro... Here is how it looks
View attachment 209261I

I don't use it for external speakers. Got another setup for that. Anyway if I need it for external speakers, switch off the amp and that switches to the speakers. If you need volume control and if the external speakers are powered, you can control the volume on it or you can put in between the amp and the speakers, passive preamp with volume control and you can then set the speakers to a max volume and use the passive preamp to control the volume.

Nice. My situation is a desktop setup. I use headphones and powered speakers with balanced inputs - (I'm replacing my current AudioEngine A2 speakers with new speakers - likely Neumi BS5P, but also considering passive speakers with SMSL DA-8s). If I opt for powered speakers, with the D10b + A30Pro I can control the headphone volume with the A30Pro and the powered speakers with my computer keyboard. However, as I understand it, when switching from headphones to speakers, I've got to be careful to decrease computer volume from 100% to something reasonable, else I blast the speakers. This seems like a huge bother. I don't mind controlling the headphones via the A30Pro and the speakers with the keyboard. It's reducing the computer volume down from 100% that is not good. Now, if I get passive speakers and the SMSL DA-8a, I believe I could connect the SMSL DA-8a balanced inputs to the A30Pro and separately control the speaker volume with the SMSL DA-8a - is that right? Alternatively, with powered speakers, I could combine the D10b with the A90 (has preamp) and control both the headphones and powered speakers with the A90. Does the A90 remember respective volume settings for both headphones and speakers?

 

[raif71]

Nice. My situation is a desktop setup. I use headphones and powered speakers with balanced inputs - (I'm replacing my current AudioEngine A2 speakers with new speakers - likely Neumi BS5P, but also considering passive speakers with SMSL DA-8s). If I opt for powered speakers, with the D10b + A30Pro I can control the headphone volume with the A30Pro and the powered speakers with my computer keyboard. However, as I understand it, when switching from headphones to speakers, I've got to be careful to decrease computer volume from 100% to something reasonable, else I blast the speakers. This seems like a huge bother. I don't mind controlling the headphones via the A30Pro and the speakers with the keyboard. It's reducing the computer volume down from 100% that is not good. Now, if I get passive speakers and the SMSL DA-8a, I believe I could connect the SMSL DA-8a balanced inputs to the A30Pro and separately control the speaker volume with the SMSL DA-8a - is that right? Alternatively, with powered speakers, I could combine the D10b with the A90 (has preamp) and control both the headphones and powered speakers with the A90. Does the A90 remember respective volume settings for both headphones and speakers?

What you say is ok but what I was referring to if you have powered speakers, you can (a) control via speaker's volume or (b) set powered speakers volume to a high setting and control the volume via a passive preamp like this one:

The out of A30Pro goes to this preamp then the out of the preamp to the powered speakers.

 

[wacomme]

What you say is ok but what I was referring to if you have powered speakers, you can (a) control via speaker's volume or (b) set powered speakers volume to a high setting and control the volume via a passive preamp like this one:
View attachment 209274

The out of A30Pro goes to this preamp then the out of the preamp to the powered speakers.

Thanks. How much money is such a preamp with balanced inputs? And is there any advantage to this setup vs. the D10b + A90? It seems that the A90 is more cost effective than the A30Pro given the need for a preamp.

 

[raif71]

Thanks. How much money is such a preamp with balanced inputs? And is there any advantage to this setup vs. the D10b + A90? It seems that the A90 is more cost effective than the A30Pro given the need for a preamp.

I suppose this is neater

 

[wacomme]

I suppose this is neater

If I already had the A30Pro the separate preamp would be a great solution (plus a bit more power). Otherwise, the A90 (or maybe the new A90 Discrete) would fit my needs/wants (and aesthetics) a bit better.

 

[Jbbanks]

Forgive my ignorance guys, I am upgrading from the schiit heresy and modi3, I am trying to decide between the L50/E50 vs A30/D30pro stack. I haven't jumped into the balanced world yet. Is the L50/E50 a fully balanced stack, is the A30/D30pro a fully balanced stack? I have fairly easy to drive headphones so far in the Audioquest nighthawk carbons, fostex TH-X00 and the TH900 that Im currently buying.

So if I use TRS balanced cables with the L50/E50 with my TH900s in balanced mode, would I be getting something different then using RCA cables in SE mode with the TH900?

I wouldnt mind having a fully balanced stack as I plan on adding more headphones that are higher tiered in the future. I only listen to EDM/Techno/witch house 95% of the time.