Topping E30 - worst sound detailing

[supernova]

I have recently made a post where I have asked if I am deaf or there is some system problem. So it appeared to be custom DAC having some issue. As I mentioned I couldn't get rid of the feeling to make every song louder to hear that juice but because of the overall loudness I couldn't listen for long.
So the creator of that DAC recommended me to try to listen to an AK chip, saying that it just a matter of personal preference. So I ordered Topping E30 based on AK.

I always thought that I am the one that can't distinguish one DAC from another so it doesn't really matter which one to buy. I haven't ever compared DACs before and reading all these forums saying - 90% of audiophiles exaggerate the sound difference they can hear - I thought I am one of them so I should just buy whatever is on sale.

But these 2 DACs are like different worlds. I have never been so wrong about myself ;D. Custom DAC is crystal clear, so reference so airy such a wide stage. But I couldn't listen to a single rock album using it. It wasn't fast enough to follow the song and that issue described before was killing me. However contemporary classic was perfect, that sound issue not so noticeable.

Topping E30 - everything is fine here with this issue, it's balanced and it's fast and lively ( for some reason too many people wrote in forums that ESS is lively and AK is clear but for me it is upside down and it is definitely not something that I imagine. ). I'm listening to rock music as well as to classic music and I am quite happy . But where are all those details? Where is that stage?

I am absolutely sure that I do not deceive myself on what I hear. Sound difference is huge. It's enormous.

My question is, if I do not have a budget of an audiophile - what should I buy to ge the best from both worlds?


Updated: Drop HD 6XX -> drop thx aaa one ( no balanced inputs ) -> mogami RCA cables -> custom made DAC based on ES9038Q2M chip with amanero USB input and bluetooth module -> klotz usb cable -> Anker hub -> MacBook Pro 16 11.4 iOS -> AppleMusic

 

[LTig]

First of all you need to make sure that levels are matched to 0.1 dB, and you need to redo the listening test at least blind. It is very easy to fool oneself - been there, done that.

 

[supernova]

First of all you need to make sure that levels are matched to 0.1 dB, and you need to redo the listening test at least blind. It is very easy to fool oneself - been there, done that.

I can bet my salary that I will be right 9out of 10 times saying which DAC is which. Im going to carry this test

 

[amirm]

I can bet my salary that I will be right 9out of 10 times saying which DAC is which. Im going to carry this test

Let us know.... Make sure to repeat the test 10 times blind and see how many you get right.

 

[voodooless]

What's that "custom DAC" then? What was wrong with it? Are you then now comparing a broken DAC with the E30?

 

[supernova]

What's that "custom DAC" then? What was wrong with it? Are you then now comparing a broken DAC with the E30?

I don't think it is broken. It's better to say unbalanced maybe. If we are talking if this a valid experiment - the detail issue I have faced is much more noticeable than this sound->volume issue I have described earlier
But you are right anyway that this is going to assist me differentiating the DAC. I can only suggest having first <number> sessions listening only to contemporary classic when I do not hear that issue almost at all.
And after that listening to <number> sessions to some albums that I would like to choose for the test.
If I have to call one of those DACs broken - I prefer to call e30 so

 

[voodooless]

That really doesn't answer any of the questions..

 

[supernova]

That really doesn't answer any of the questions..

Actually for me it is a problem of perspective. You label one of them broken because of the issue I have described and it is fine. But I have answered that the Topping E30 detail issue is much more noticeable, so why don't you call now e30 broken?

 

[solderdude]

I am absolutely sure that I do not deceive myself on what I hear. Sound difference is huge. It's enormous.

When the differences are so big why don't you record the differences between those 2 DACs and post (or link to) the recordings so they can be analyzed.

I own E30 and there is no loss of details also no exaggerated details.
Have you tried the various filter settings ?
Do you know the 0dBFS output voltages of both DACs ?

also see: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...one-not-as-clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/

It shows how difficult this is to test and how flawed tests and conclusions can easily be drawn.
The E30 is also in there.

 

[voodooless]

so why don't you call now e30 broken?

Because we know the E30, have measurements and we can conclude based on those that it's not broken unless your specific E30 has an issue.

From the "Custom DAC" we know nothing at all and up until now, you haven't volunteered any additional info either. Occam's Razor says the other one is either broken, your imagining things or the testing methodology is flawed.

 

[cany89]

@supernova there are so many variables. What is the custom dac? Is it also dac+pre? Do you have a pre-amp, or are they directly connected to power amp? Is it speaker or headphone setup? Do you have a good cd player connected through coax or is it all pc usb?… the list goes on and on.

From my own experience - someone who believes dacs do have it’s own sound - there is probably a problem with your setup, etc. E30 is really an average dac in its price range and there is almost no way to hear any difference - that is positive, contributing to the music - in those prices. Not even 2x 3x prices… I would listen E30 closely and take it as reference rather than the unknown custom dac. My 2c

 

[nerone]

Try replacing the power supply, in my case I chose the one that sounded best.

 

[supernova]

@supernova there are so many variables. What is the custom dac? Is it also dac+pre? Do you have a pre-amp, or are they directly connected to power amp? Is it speaker or headphone setup? Do you have a good cd player connected through coax or is it all pc usb?… the list goes on and on.

From my own experience - someone who believes dacs do have it’s own sound - there is probably a problem with your setup, etc. E30 is really an average dac in its price range and there is almost no way to hear any difference - that is positive, contributing to the music - in those prices. Not even 2x 3x prices… I would listen E30 closely and take it as reference rather than the unknown custom dac. My 2c

I have added my set up
Its just a dac with a bluetooth module and xmos usb based on 9038q2m chip

 

[Koeitje]

I have added my set up

You have more information on that custom dac? Any measurements?

 

[supernova]

Because we know the E30, have measurements and we can conclude based on those that it's not broken unless your specific E30 has an issue.

From the "Custom DAC" we know nothing at all and up until now, you haven't volunteered any additional info either. Occam's Razor says the other one is either broken, your imagining things or the testing methodology is flawed.

I dont think anyone of them is broken - it is what u say. For me they are just different.


Тип преобразования: 32-битное (2,8MHz DSD);
Частоты дискретизации: 44,1-384kHz (16-32bit);
Рабочий диапазон частот: 10Hz–40kHz;
Динамический диапазон (ЦАП, моно): 110dB;
Уровень выходного сигнала: ~2,00V;
Межканальное проникновение сигнала: –84dB при 10kHz;
Соотношение сигнал/гармоники (1kHz/100kHz): 0,001%;
Интермодуляционный коэффициент (19kHz/20kHz): 0,004%;
This is all I was able to find about it. Didn’t translate them because those numbers mean nothing to me so I thought to leave them better as they are

 

[voodooless]

Brand and model would be helpful.. these are just some generic specs. THD and IMD are not very good as stated.

See here how bad a bad implementation can be: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-simple-r-m-for-a-taobao-9038q2m-board.10306/

 

[supernova]

Brand and model would be helpful.. these are just some generic specs. THD and IMD are not very good as stated.

See here how bad a bad implementation can be: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-simple-r-m-for-a-taobao-9038q2m-board.10306/

It doesn’t have a name you can google it. There are made maybe a hundred of those.

 

[solderdude]

Can you just record the output of both DACs (same song) ?

Your claims cannot be deduced from specs, pictures from boards/devices or anything else.
It must be researched from actual recordings.
Your claims have to be verified by others and or null tests otherwise it is just a stab in the dark.

 

[supernova]

Can you just record the output of both DACs (same song) ?

Your claims cannot be deduced from specs, pictures from boards/devices or anything else.
It must be researched from actual recordings.
Your claims have to be verified by others and or null tests otherwise it is just a stab in the dark.

How can I make it on mac?

 

[solderdude]

I have no idea but maybe someone else knows (Linux and Windhose only)