Topping E30 II DAC Review

[Jimster480]

@amirm are you sure that the first 2 dashboard images are not accidentally duplicated? The 2 inputs produced EXACTLY the same results? Not even 0.001 variation? Just seems odd.

 

[Ashimaru]

Topping product prices in my country now:
- Topping E30 around $99
- Topping D10s around $73
- While the E30 II launched at $149 (not yet available in my country)

Quite confused which one to get to replace my outdated Topping D30 and combined with L30. I only listen to 16 bit/44.1kHz, occasionally 24 bit, via USB. Can anyone give me advice?

 

[gvl]

Ouch. Isn't there a source player that shows the problem?

I saw a complaint of dropouts using Audiolab 6000CDT with the original E30.

 

[Jimster480]

Absolutely. ASR is a 'forum' and that means a public meeting place for robust discussion. (from Latin- ancient Rome).

Amir cannot continue to favourably review products provided free by this brand or its distributors, and to not hold them to account when products he gave glowing recommendations to, fail en masse and leave people out in the cold. All credibility is shot to pieces when that happens.

Well I mean it depends on the overall performance. They have to skimp somewhere in the device in order to deliver such great performance at a low price. Especially with alal the shortages that have existed in the past years. However they should make good on the devices shipped with defective chips and replace/repair those devices. It is the right thing to do once they have identified an issue.

 

[amirm]

@amirm are you sure that the first 2 dashboard images are not accidentally duplicated? The 2 inputs produced EXACTLY the same results? Not even 0.001 variation? Just seems odd.

Oops. Will fix later.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Very Nice device. Performs better thant the Chord for a fraction of the price.

It doesn’t perform better than the Chord in every single metric, just most of them.

 

[Jimster480]

Except many customers are ordering this kind of cheap DACs straight from China (AliExpress, Aoshida, Shenzen Audio etc). That way, you could forget about your "2 years EU warranty", if you have any issue, then, you're screwed.

My two cents: It is now pretty clear that Topping does not have any consideration for either QC or user's confort. There was literally no point for replacing the actual E30, unless to fix its flaws. They should focus on designing an actually working remote, or reliable products for what matters, that will be way more relevant to the final user than 1.5dB of extra SINAD.

If you understand the Chinese market; you will understand how they took this route even if it doesn't make much sense to most people in the west.
There is very rapid development over there and new companies are always releasing new products and trying to hit lower prices. It is a "race to the bottom" in many categories. Since consumers are very price conscious they will go with the best performance for the lowest price in most cases.
Topping does sell higher end devices without such issues... I am surprised that these devices have such good performance honestly.

Probably the design itself needs to be redone to fix all the issues and it just isn't cost effective to do that part or the chips aren't all available especailly at a lower price point. It really depends since the supply chain isn't in the greatest state. When it comes to very budget devices; there is some leeway for issues.
I mean at the end of the day this has more performance than the Chord DAVE for $14k... You can go buy that device if you want perfect Coax support instead?
Or just buy a higher end Topping device... I'm not really sure how they have taken such a beating over something that doesn't seem to be that large of an idea.

Now if the devices are seriously dieing in under 1 year then that is something to have concern with. Today my DX7 still works (although I killed the USB interface accidentally) and so does my D30 and A30... All have many thousands of hours of power on time and playback time... no issues.

 

[MC_RME]

Ouch. Isn't there a source player that shows the problem?

I got me a cheap SONY DVP-NS300 CD/DVD Player for 15 bucks from ebay. It was identified in the other thread to cause the issue. I was not able to find anything suspicious when measuring it via the APx, nor did any RME gear show any issue (but that was expected).

 

[raif71]

BTW, I tried to develop a test for jitter lock. In all but one narrow case, AP could not create jitter high enough to cause the few DACs I tested to lose lock. I need to get my hands on a source that shows this kind of problem to see what it is doing. Is there a cheap one I could buy?

Members that have an extra source that is problematic, please send one to @amirm for testing.. Thanks

 

[DanielT]

Topping product prices in my country now:
- Topping E30 around $99
- Topping D10s around $73
- While the E30 II launched at $149 (not yet available in my country)

Quite confused which one to get to replace my outdated Topping D30 and combined with L30. I only listen to 16 bit/44.1kHz, occasionally 24 bit, via USB. Can anyone give me advice?

Hm, that small differences in price for a gadget you will hopefully use often in the coming years are in themselves nothing to worry about.I think so, anyway.
On the other hand, functionality, reliability and guarantees (which are now widely discussed in the thread) should be considered.

By the way, thanks for another nice and interesting test Amir!

 

[Anthony T]

What I meant is treat it as a consumable. The nearest competitor as I can see it costs 20x. Buy two, keep one spare and when one fails order another one. Do that ten times, you equal the spending.

I’m not sure if you are joking or not

 

[Jimster480]

I'd buy Topping in a heartbeat if I lived in Shenzhen, or if it had local (or even easily obtainable) warranty service.

Absent that, if I was a poor audiophile, I'd probably be looking at the Full of Schiit guys. Simply because I know I could call them up and get someone to respond, if I ever had a problem. Dealing with support via email is not my idea of support. And because I wouldn't have to send a defective item half-way around the world for inspection.

BTW, I've been poor, and never felt myself somehow underprivileged when I had to build a Dynakit because I couldn't afford a Mark Levinson. But, then again, I've never really liked the food at McDonald's that much, either. Even when I was poor.

Tbh I've got a few topping products and my friends have bought them as well. Nobody has needed the customer service line as of yet and all of our devices are multiple years old at this point in time.
After I killed my DX7 USB; I just bought an SMSL xUSB2... One day I might try to see if its worth to even send my DX7 to topping to see if they can fix the USB issue because I would have to pay and its not SOTA any longer.... But I can't blame topping for the issue with my unit and I never tried to call them about it.
I think many people stress warranty services too much, they do have a global email and AFAIK a phone line (check the tpdz website).

 

[amirm]

Updated USB measurements in the review.

 

[Jimster480]

I thought the initial post about there not being double-bind, randomized studies was in jest, but apparently not. For instance, sodium bicarbonate works a like a charm for a sore throat, while the typical pill at the pharmacy does nothing. It works fast enough that the germs don't have time to go down into the lungs, so 1) the soreness is cured in a day or two; 2) a potential more serious cold gets nipped in the bud. Have there been double-bind randomized studies on sodium bicarbonate for sore throats? If not, is anybody going to report me ?

There is something called Citricare

CitriCare citrus seed extract

Lemon, lime, tangerine, grapefruit seed extract. Good for candida, yeast, fungus, weight loss, sore throats, vaginitis, bladder infections, tourista, diarrhea, E. coli, herpes, nail fungus, athlete's foot, warts; craving carbohydrates, sugars, bloating.

www.vimandvigor.com

This stuff works like "magic" for colds. If you start feeling you are getting one, drop 5 drops into Orange Juice (or some other Juice you like, because this stuff tastes like garden roots) and drink it up. Usually ends it there. If you already get sick it can sometimes help with recovery times, but depends on the severity of the cold. It really works if you take it at the right time. My grandma has used it for ~20 years and has literally gone to places with everyone sick and had full interactions with everyone, started to catch a cold and took this and it went away. We have had similar experiences for the ~6 years we have used it and shared it with friends and other family members.
Worth to keep a bottle on hand, as it should last years.

 

[Jimster480]

Probably you know Amir better, for sure. I am just analyzing facts in the current real context. To consider a(ny) forum owner a saint is rather naive.

He isn't paid by mfg to run this site or put reviews out there.
This is literally likely the only unbias site you will find.

 

[Jimster480]

I get your point, and probably I would not buy any Audio product that last less than 1 year regardless the cost. But again how much QC a company can offer when sells a device with state of the art measurements but at only $150???, what is the margin profit for the company, and can you really offer a good QC level at that low prices??.
I really would prefer Topping would price their devices to a level they can offer a great QC level. If that means 3x or 4x higher it would be quite reasonable for me.

They have those products too, so I am not sure why people are even discussing this.
I would be surprised if you bought a D50 or D30Pro or D90 and it failed in a year....

 

[amirm]

Probably you know Amir better, for sure. I am just analyzing facts in the current real context. To consider a(ny) forum owner a saint is rather naive.

I had promised the company I would get the reviews out by their announcement. But then didn't feel good and barely got the L30II review done. I figured if I leave that as the only product reviewed, folks would question why this review is not out. So got the critical ones out until I could no longer sit up.

 

[Koeitje]

If there is a small Samsung TV that does it, I don't mind buying it to test either.

I had this issue with an LG OLED (2017) with the SMSL M500, but didn't have it with the E30. Maybe I didn't test it long enough, because a couple of weeks later I switched to a processor in that setup. But even with the M500 it happened like once every couple hours. So you need something that is truly terrible to get it to drop more often than that, unless you want the test to last 2+ hours.

 

[bambadoo]

A quick question regarding the different filters provided.

These looks like 48khz sampling for me and not 44.1? F2 and F6 seems identical linear filters with great attenuation at around 24khz.

 

[DanielT]

I had promised the company I would get the reviews out by their announcement. But then didn't feel good and barely got the L30II review done. I figured if I leave that as the only product reviewed, folks would question why this review is not out. So got the critical ones out until I could no longer sit up.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.