Topping E30 II DAC Review

[Hapo]

...I have one I would send to someone..

 

[Anderlfs]

ok, but how could the outputs on d10 be bad as to cause a ~20db difference? lots of cheap ass dvdplayers around with questionable design. then there`s the bits are bits argument.

That's why It would be nice. He could however have also tested directly from a TV to discard any problem with his D10, or with something in the way, isn't that how @amirm tests? Isn't that how most will use Toslink?

 

[CauliflowerEars]

That's the most important thing..!

Well, I've just upgraded to the Topping E50 and I am even happier (probably +20-30%)
Now I am afraid to listen to the more expensive DACs. It seems the next step up would have to be in the 600-800 USD range, if I am correct (Topping d70s?) ...
It's crazy how better the E50 sounded to the E30 II. Fuller, some sounds had more details, strings rung more/longer, making music more enjoyable.
I even heard more detail and modulation in the cosmic sound from 4:40 in Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder.

Gosh, now I am really curious (and afraid) how the best DACs sound ...

 

[Veri]

It's crazy how better the E50 sounded to the E30 II. Fuller, some sounds had more details, strings rung more/longer, making music more enjoyable.
I even heard more detail and modulation in the cosmic sound from 4:40 in Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder.

Gosh, now I am really curious (and afraid) how the best DACs sound ...

So uh, E30 ii is RCA output, are you using E50 with XLR output? Resulting in increased voltage and volume levels? Because it's extremely doubtful DACs of this caliber can sound so different unless you changed the whole set-up by a lot..

 

[Hapo]

...I am glad some one knew how to say this...

...Amir might say you are listening more carefully...

 

[CauliflowerEars]

So uh, E30 ii is RCA output, are you using E50 with XLR output? Resulting in increased voltage and volume levels? Because it's extremely doubtful DACs of this caliber can sound so different unless you changed the whole set-up by a lot..

Nope, everything was the same. Exactly the same cables as well. Although, the E50's RCA was even 80cm longer and the USB 1m longer.
(tbh, I don't yet know when/if it's worth using the XLR output ... is it?). UNLESS, my MBP 15-inch, mid 2012 has two different USB outputs OR my old Pioneer A505R amp's Tuner and CD inputs are different ... Have you compared the E30 II to any other DAC?

Yello - The Race (Remastered) - known for its stereo effects: https://tidal.com/browse/track/64627076
E50 - deeper and fuller. I got dragged into the song. It became a ... 'trip', so to speak.
E30 II - flatter. The sounds were more like information, less engaging and definitely didn't drag me in.

Eva Cassidy - Ain't No Sunshine - apparently often heard on audio expos: https://tidal.com/browse/track/53262839
E50 - the singer was less ... restrained. The echoes and instruments sounded longer, especially the strings. The bass and strings were fuller, I felt more vibrations. The music sort of engaged emotionally more.

Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder: https://tidal.com/browse/track/20115559
In the beginning, I thought it would be difficult to hear the differences in such a well produced and complex song. But:
E50 - the cosmic sound from min. 4:40 was more complex, I heard its modulation, which was more engaging.
E30 II - it was more flat. Just a sound with nothing special ...

...I am glad some one knew how to say this...

...Amir might say you are listening more carefully...

Do you mean you like my description of the differences or Veri's calling out my BS?
I had to listen carefully (is that sth strange?). It was an AB purchase test after all. I have to say the differences were in the range of 20-30%.
In the beginning I wasn't sure, if to upgrade*, but the Yello 'trip', Cassidy's emotional engagement and Daft Punk's cosmic sound complexity helped me make up my mind.
We (at least I) are doing this for the musical engagement and experiences, after all ... For me it was definitely worth the extra 65 eur.

Now my big questions are:
1) How much better are the other (more expensive?) DACs? From one review it seems a Topping d70s would be the next upgrade (about 566 eur, so 2.7x more than E50).
2) Are there other DACs that would be a good upgrade for not so much? The E30 II -> E50 jump was cheap enough to be a no brainer. I like those

* also, the smaller E30 II fits nicely on top of my amp, not standing on any of the venting holes and the bigger E50 is above 2 row of those ... I hope it's not an issue ...

 

[Hapo]

 

[Rottmannash]

Nope, everything was the same. Exactly the same cables as well. Although, the E50's RCA was even 80cm longer and the USB 1m longer.
(tbh, I don't yet know when/if it's worth using the XLR output ... is it?). UNLESS, my MBP 15-inch, mid 2012 has two different USB outputs OR my old Pioneer A505R amp's Tuner and CD inputs are different ... Have you compared the E30 II to any other DAC?

Yello - The Race (Remastered) - known for its stereo effects: https://tidal.com/browse/track/64627076
E50 - deeper and fuller. I got dragged into the song. It became a ... 'trip', so to speak.
E30 II - flatter. The sounds were more like information, less engaging and definitely didn't drag me in.

Eva Cassidy - Ain't No Sunshine - apparently often heard on audio expos: https://tidal.com/browse/track/53262839
E50 - the singer was less ... restrained. The echoes and instruments sounded longer, especially the strings. The bass and strings were fuller, I felt more vibrations. The music sort of engaged emotionally more.

Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder: https://tidal.com/browse/track/20115559
In the beginning, I thought it would be difficult to hear the differences in such a well produced and complex song. But:
E50 - the cosmic sound from min. 4:40 was more complex, I heard its modulation, which was more engaging.
E30 II - it was more flat. Just a sound with nothing special ...


Do you mean you like my description of the differences or Veri's calling out my BS?
I had to listen carefully (is that sth strange?). It was an AB purchase test after all. I have to say the differences were in the range of 20-30%.
In the beginning I wasn't sure, if to upgrade*, but the Yello 'trip', Cassidy's emotional engagement and Daft Punk's cosmic sound complexity helped me make up my mind.
We (at least I) are doing this for the musical engagement and experiences, after all ... For me it was definitely worth the extra 65 eur.

Now my big questions are:
1) How much better are the other (more expensive?) DACs? From one review it seems a Topping d70s would be the next upgrade (about 566 eur, so 2.7x more than E50).
2) Are there other DACs that would be a good upgrade for not so much? The E30 II -> E50 jump was cheap enough to be a no brainer. I like those

* also, the smaller E30 II fits nicely on top of my amp, not standing on any of the venting holes and the bigger E50 is above 2 row of those ... I hope it's not an issue ...

Don't have the E30 II but have the OG E30, a D70, a D10 Balanced and a D90SE and don't believe I could discern a difference between them in a blind test-they all sound the same.

 

[gegegege]

There are reviews indicating the missing details from E30, such as this one https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/topping-e30-dac-review-entry-level-overachiever/

"The only thing that I could complain about compared to a high-end DAC was the detail retrieval that was not its best trait, I would spot some micro-details but only with my eyes closed. They are still there, but are not screaming for attention and prime time. Treble lovers would be slightly disappointed to know that E30 is playing the safe game, rendering it natural and clear but without the over sharpening some DACs are doing nowadays."

 

[CauliflowerEars]

Don't have the E30 II but have the OG E30, a D70, a D10 Balanced and a D90SE and don't believe I could discern a difference between them in a blind test-they all sound the same.

Well, from what I know, seems the OG E30 is worse than the mk2. I’d assume you’d hear at least some difference … why would the D90SE be so expensive, then?

I suppose the rest of your system is also of good quality and you are listening through USB from a high quality source?

Would be interesting, if you could listen to the three songs I did.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

There are reviews indicating the missing details from E30, such as this one https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/topping-e30-dac-review-entry-level-overachiever/

"The only thing that I could complain about compared to a high-end DAC was the detail retrieval that was not its best trait, I would spot some micro-details but only with my eyes closed. They are still there, but are not screaming for attention and prime time. Treble lovers would be slightly disappointed to know that E30 is playing the safe game, rendering it natural and clear but without the over sharpening some DACs are doing nowadays."

Seems similar to my experience. Although, maybe less about the treble. And, I did test the E30 mk-2. New beautiful black packaging, sealed. And it had the ‘II’ on it.

 

[gegegege]

Also noticed E30II uses AK chip while DX7s uses ES chip, could be the cause of difference?

 

[Veri]

Also noticed E30II uses AK chip while DX7s uses ES chip, could be the cause of difference?

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Big White]

Seems similar to my experience. Although, maybe less about the treble. And, I did test the E30 mk-2. New beautiful black packaging, sealed. And it had the ‘II’ on it.

Is there a difference in sound quality when you connect the E50 and E30II via toslink with wiim mini?

 

[Sokel]

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There's quite a "differences" party going on here and in the E70 and E70V threads.I thought that people would jump to them but...
Interesting thought.

 

[Veri]

There's quite a "differences" party going on here and in the E70 and E70V threads,

Yeah I noticed...

 

[Joel G]

We (at least I) are doing this for the musical engagement and experiences, after all ...

Respect for this! I am in it for the same reason, and that keeps me coming back here to check info and experiences on devices that I am considering buying.

However I no longer feel for discussing any (subjective) impression I might have on devices here, after I was put on my place for trying to discuss such matters in ASR. And it’s alright, no hard feelings, it is after all audio Science review, and the premise for what I was made to understand is that all DACs sound the same etc etc and if I happened to differ from that opinion I should rather keep it to myself. Which is what I do now. Once in a while though I am happy to read posts like yours knowing
I might be wrong but not alone

 

[Sokel]

Respect for this! I am in it for the same reason, and that keeps me coming back here to check info and experiences on devices that I am considering buying.

However I no longer feel for discussing any (subjective) impression I might have on devices here, after I was put on my place for trying to discuss such matters in ASR. And it’s alright, no hard feelings, it is after all audio Science review, and the premise for what I was made to understand is that all DACs sound the same etc etc and if I happened to differ from that opinion I should rather keep it to myself. Which is what I do now. Once in a while though I am happy to read posts like yours knowing
I might be wrong but not alone

The suggestions about the subjective impressions is not to keep them to yourself but to prove them to yourself (it's your wallet after all) by listening to them properly under proper conditions.
The benefit will be yours if you eliminate one by one any variable truthfuly (to yourself always,we internet people don't sit in your sofa)) and focus to the ones that truly matters (room acoustics,speakers,nice headphones,etc).

 

[Honken]

it is after all audio Science review, and the premise for what I was made to understand is that all DACs sound the same etc

No, not all DACs sound the same, but all competent DACs sound effectively the same. There's quite a few broken DACs out there, and this is not one of them. In fact, it is more often than not the expensive boutique designs that are the broken ones.

I have one of these and I am quite happy with it, looks smart and it was cheap. I have a L30 II / E30 II combo that replaced a JDS Element 2 that got banged up when I accidentally dropped it. Don't really hear a difference in sound quality between the two setups, but the noise floor is noticably much lower with the Toppings. Can't really figure out why, but I only hear the difference with IEMs.

 

[DSJR]

Nope, everything was the same. Exactly the same cables as well. Although, the E50's RCA was even 80cm longer and the USB 1m longer.
(tbh, I don't yet know when/if it's worth using the XLR output ... is it?). UNLESS, my MBP 15-inch, mid 2012 has two different USB outputs OR my old Pioneer A505R amp's Tuner and CD inputs are different ... Have you compared the E30 II to any other DAC?

Yello - The Race (Remastered) - known for its stereo effects: https://tidal.com/browse/track/64627076
E50 - deeper and fuller. I got dragged into the song. It became a ... 'trip', so to speak.
E30 II - flatter. The sounds were more like information, less engaging and definitely didn't drag me in.

Eva Cassidy - Ain't No Sunshine - apparently often heard on audio expos: https://tidal.com/browse/track/53262839
E50 - the singer was less ... restrained. The echoes and instruments sounded longer, especially the strings. The bass and strings were fuller, I felt more vibrations. The music sort of engaged emotionally more.

Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder: https://tidal.com/browse/track/20115559
In the beginning, I thought it would be difficult to hear the differences in such a well produced and complex song. But:
E50 - the cosmic sound from min. 4:40 was more complex, I heard its modulation, which was more engaging.
E30 II - it was more flat. Just a sound with nothing special ...


Do you mean you like my description of the differences or Veri's calling out my BS?
I had to listen carefully (is that sth strange?). It was an AB purchase test after all. I have to say the differences were in the range of 20-30%.
In the beginning I wasn't sure, if to upgrade*, but the Yello 'trip', Cassidy's emotional engagement and Daft Punk's cosmic sound complexity helped me make up my mind.
We (at least I) are doing this for the musical engagement and experiences, after all ... For me it was definitely worth the extra 65 eur.

Now my big questions are:
1) How much better are the other (more expensive?) DACs? From one review it seems a Topping d70s would be the next upgrade (about 566 eur, so 2.7x more than E50).
2) Are there other DACs that would be a good upgrade for not so much? The E30 II -> E50 jump was cheap enough to be a no brainer. I like those

* also, the smaller E30 II fits nicely on top of my amp, not standing on any of the venting holes and the bigger E50 is above 2 row of those ... I hope it's not an issue ...

I can't at all challenge your subjective views here BUT - Maybe a silly question but I ask anyway -

Are these the links you used when subjectively evaluating? Tidal is MQA hobbled now pretty much isn't it? if so, the E30 will be giving a thirteen bit reproduction (with much reduced S/N playing back the MQA files) and the E50 as well as having higher output potentially? will 'unfold' the MQA files with all that this entails..