Topping E30 DAC Review

[hawk01]

Hi - 1st post. My Topping E30 has arrived - Serial number 210373XXXX.

I was minding my mum's cat and didn't have my hifi gear with me to test it, but I was itching to try it out so I hooked it up to a dvd player (a Panasonic DVD S75 from 2003) via the digital coax. Outputted the sound from the dvd fine. Tried a cd and the sound intermittently broke up. I then connected it to my laptop via usb and with Foobar played lots of files thru it, and also played a cd on the computer through it - again the sound was fine.

Just got home tonight and connected it to my cd player via digital coax. Now admittedly it's an old player (Phillips CD840, from 1991, the 1st bit stream player) but when I play a cd through it the sound breaks up again.

I don't know if my unit contains the Cirrus Logic CS 8416, but it's mega recently purchased. For peace of mind has anyone else out there got a really, really recently bought E30 that they've connected up to a stand alone cd player via digital coax and played a CD thru it successfully - this is what I bought it for as I'm from a generation that back in the day bought a lot of music on CD. Maybe my unit is faulty, but it seems kind of odd to me that most of the Topping's functionality seems to be working fine. Maybe you get issues with older dvd/cd players? I mean it couldn't be the Cirrus Logic chip change could it - someone else would have noticed by now wouldn't they?

i sent a DM to @JohnYang1997 inquiring about the E30 and he brought out the issue regarding cd player spdif connection which may be due to the suspect chip change. mine has arrived and works fine on usb for it’s main usage. i have not checked the SN yet. will try to play cds later to confirm this issue.

 

[hawk01]

sadly there really is a discrepancy during CD player use via optical connections as advised. darn fortunately is never use DACs for this purpose but nontheless the implementation should be addressed and fixed moving forward.

 

[Cyfrox]

sadly there really is a discrepancy during CD player use via optical connections as advised. darn fortunately is never use DACs for this purpose but nontheless the implementation should be addressed and fixed moving forward.

Pardon my ignorance. I am new to the DAC scene, but given Toslink/Coax are both digital signals, different receiver chip will make a difference / discrepancy to the sound 'quality' or just the stability of the connection? or by introducing more noise?

Am I correct to say that the Receiver chip receives the digital signal and pass it to the AK4493 DAC chip to convert it to analog signal?
Thus the sound 'quality' or 'signature' should still be determine by the AK4493 correct?

 

[ALex_hha]

I suppose you mean "it is". That's good to hear, but are you sure? The latest version of BitPerfect is v3.2.0, released on October 10 2019, at which time they announced compatibility with macOS Catalina. Your assertion doesn't agree with several reviews on the Mac App Store -
https://apps.apple.com/app/bitperfect/id455545700#see-all/reviews
particularly reviews by mongobot 05/19/2021, and Hypops 06/05/2021.

my bad, I was sure you were talking about ability to play bit perfect in audirvana

 

[Yoyop]

At first, thank you very much @linuxfan for taking time to make a great reply to my post.
I'm pretty new in audiophile world so I can be confusing at time ^^

Yoyop, I worry that you may be confusing lossless with high-resolution.
Standard-res audio files (16bit 44.1kHz) can be losslessly compressed. High-res audio files, such as 24bit 192kHz, can be losslessly compressed.
The Apple lossless files now available from Apple Music are standard res.

Standard res is OK for me, I just want lossless compression ^^ it's why I wanna test Apple music.
Since I use E30 I want to use the correct sample rate (hehe no more confusing xD) automatically, like I do on foobar2000 using ASIO with some FLAC (44.1/16 - 24/96 - 24/192 etc...)

Yes, easy. Just point foobar to your iTunes directory, I think it's Music\iTunes\iTunes Media

Ok I'll try it if I don't like using iTunes to play musics.

I think you're confusing bitrate with bit depth and sample rate. On Mac, core audio helper apps, as mentioned above, change the system bit depth / sample rate on the fly, but with Windows this is generally not necessary - you should be able to get bit-perfect output to your DAC as long as the driver for your DAC supports WASAPI or ASIO, and if you music playback application also supports WASAPI or ASIO. There's a good forum post here on this subject -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...bie-bit-perfect-windows-10-topping-e30.18787/
foobar2000 definitely supports WASAPI and ASIO - once the corresponding foobar component has been installed -
https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio
I understand that iTunes for Windows 10 does not support ASIO, but it does support WASAPI - you should find the setting under iTunes Playback Preferences > Play Audio Using: Windows Audio Session.

Yes I installed E30 drivers to get ASIO, I use it with foobar, but if iTunes for Windows support WASAPI it's perfect for me. I just don't wanna change sample rate when I play, when I listen to music etc... and I like to see the good sample rate on the E30 screen

 

[hawk01]

Pardon my ignorance. I am new to the DAC scene, but given Toslink/Coax are both digital signals, different receiver chip will make a difference / discrepancy to the sound 'quality' or just the stability of the connection? or by introducing more noise?

Am I correct to say that the Receiver chip receives the digital signal and pass it to the AK4493 DAC chip to convert it to analog signal?
Thus the sound 'quality' or 'signature' should still be determine by the AK4493 correct?

there is nothing wrong with the SQ during playback. it sounds just like any other well measuring DAC. i also do not care about a DAC chip‘s sound signature as all of them are supposed to sound the same if not very close to each other if everything is well implemented. however, it is also during playback where the track skips and cuts off intermittently which is something unique i encountered for the first time. perhaps there are others in the know who can give a qualified reply to this issue.

 

[SgtPepper]

there is nothing wrong with the SQ during playback. it sounds just like any other well measuring DAC. i also do not care about a DAC chip‘s sound signature as all of them are supposed to sound the same if not very close to each other if everything is well implemented. however, it is also during playback where the track skips and cuts off intermittently which is something unique i encountered for the first time. perhaps there are others in the know who can give a qualified reply to this issue.

Hawk, are you saying you've now tested your E30 with a cd player connected via digital coax and you're getting the same problem I'm getting - the sound cutting off intermittently?

 

[hawk01]

Hawk, are you saying you've now tested your E30 with a cd player connected via digital coax and you're getting the same problem I'm getting - the sound cutting off intermittently?

yes i did a few hours ago. intermittent playback with CD player connected via optical and coaxial connection.

from what i understand the earlier releases with a different DAC chip handling spdif does not have this issue. this may be a major cause for concern for anyone who will primarily utilize spdif connections on the newer E30 releases.

 

[SgtPepper]

yes i did a few hours ago. intermittent playback with CD player connected via optical and coaxial connection.

from what i understand the earlier releases with a different DAC chip handling spdif does not have this issue. this may be a major cause for concern for anyone who will primarily utilize spdif connections on the newer E30 releases.

- I'm worried - this was the only reason I bought it; all my music is on cd. Interestingly though it plays dvds via digital coax fine. But then dvds have a sampling rate of 48KHz, whereas CD is 44.1. Just speculating, but I wonder could there be some minor coding issue they overlooked when they switched to the Cirrus Logic receiver - maybe a firmware update will fix it?

 

[hawk01]

- I'm worried - this was the only reason I bought it; all my music is on cd. Interestingly though it plays dvds via digital coax fine. But then dvds have a sampling rate of 48KHz, whereas CD is 44.1. Just speculating, but I wonder could there be some minor coding issue they overlooked when they switched to the Cirrus Logic receiver - maybe a firmware update will fix it?

at this juncture we can all just wait how and when topping will address this very real issue. if you are in a good position to request a refund or exchange for something else that works then that is your quickest fix. fortunately, i only intended it for preamp use where i will not need coax and optical. but nontheless this thing is still “broken” so to speak!

just like you i also have a truckload of music CDs. but i just use a dedicated music CD player instead of having an external DAC, which as a preamp is connected to my minipc source where i have the rest of my high res stuff. depending on where you are you may be better off looking for a dedicafed music CD player than fiddling with DACs with issues!

 

[JohnYang1997]

- I'm worried - this was the only reason I bought it; all my music is on cd. Interestingly though it plays dvds via digital coax fine. But then dvds have a sampling rate of 48KHz, whereas CD is 44.1. Just speculating, but I wonder could there be some minor coding issue they overlooked when they switched to the Cirrus Logic receiver - maybe a firmware update will fix it?

My suggestion is to return it.

 

[SgtPepper]

My suggestion is to return it.

Thanks John. I was hoping I could hold onto it and you'd issue a fix, but it's getting near the end of the 30 day period. I'll return it and order another one when you fix it. The whole idea was to inject a bit of 21st century DAC magic into my 30 year old cd player.

 

[Robbo99999]

Thanks John. I was hoping I could hold onto it and you'd issue a fix, but it's getting near the end of the 30 day period. I'll return it and order another one when you fix it. The whole idea was to inject a bit of 21st century DAC magic into my 30 year old cd player.

You could rip all your CD's losslessly to an old laptop or something, and then use that as your player rather than relying on playing back actual CD physical media....because then you can create play lists, put stuff on auto-shuffle, etc. That's what I've done, all using a cheap USB CD drive during the ripping process. That would also allow you use something like EqualiserAPO on your laptop to create EQ profiles for either RoomEQ or perhaps even Anechoic Speaker EQ from Amir's measurements if you own one of his speakers he's measured.....gives you a lot more flexibility rather than relying on just playing back CD's straight from the "original" physical media.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks John. I was hoping I could hold onto it and you'd issue a fix, but it's getting near the end of the 30 day period. I'll return it and order another one when you fix it. The whole idea was to inject a bit of 21st century DAC magic into my 30 year old cd player.

If you were to buy another DAC for the purpose, try to look for AK4118, LC89091 and try to avoid cs84xx. And some others that use ESS dac's own receiver and XMOS as receirver should also be avoided for the use.
For other people who are reading this. This is a mutual issue with CD players and TV's transmitter having really bad signal and the receiver's inability to lock onto it. The implementations are fine with cheapest usb to spdif converters, or anything "pro" grade, even PC's on board spdif out should be fine.

 

[SgtPepper]

If you were to buy another DAC for the purpose, try to look for AK4118, LC89091 and try to avoid cs84xx. And some others that use ESS dac's own receiver and XMOS as receirver should also be avoided for the use.
For other people who are reading this. This is a mutual issue with CD players and TV's transmitter having really bad signal and the receiver's inability to lock onto it. The implementations are fine with cheapest usb to spdif converters, or anything "pro" grade, even PC's on board spdif out should be fine.

Thanks John.. I guess then the original E30 was perfect for what I wanted before the receiver chip was changed to one less good at performing one of the functions that the device was originally designed for.

 

[Koeitje]

I had this issue with the SMSL M500 and my tv, it just dropped out every once in a while. Didn't have it with the E30.

 

[Toku]

I received the new E30 I ordered today and am testing it immediately. The S/N is 2104 *****.
I'm already using the S/N 1911 and S/N 2008 E30s, and like these E30s, OPT & COAX is working fine.
It can also connect normally to the COAX of SONY Blu-ray players that could not be connected at all with D50 and D50s before.
The COAX and OPT of the conversion output from D10s can also be connected normally.

 

[SgtPepper]

I received the new E30 I ordered today and am testing it immediately. The S/N is 2104 *****.
I'm already using the S/N 1911 and S/N 2008 E30s, and like these E30s, OPT & COAX is working fine.
It can also connect normally to the COAX of SONY Blu-ray players that could not be connected at all with D50 and D50s before.
The COAX and OPT of the conversion output from D10s can also be connected normally.

Interesting. RE: the E30 with S/N 2014*****, did you actually test it by connecting it to a CD player using the coax, or was it a blu-ray player?

 

[Toku]

Interesting. RE: the E30 with S/N 2014*****, did you actually test it by connecting it to a CD player using the coax, or was it a blu-ray player?

I don't have a CD player. I only own Sony and Pioneer Blu-ray players. CDs are played on these Blu-ray players.
The connection is a commercially available inexpensive coaxial cable and OPT cable.

 

[linuxfan]

Since I use E30 I want to use the correct sample rate (hehe no more confusing xD) automatically,

Just to recap: properly configured, foobar2000 should be able to output bit-perfect audio no matter what the source file's resolution is, with foobar changing its output bit depth and sample rate on-the-fly. And this should be confirmed by the display on your E30 DAC.

iTunes (for Windows) however, is not quite as smart, nor as versatile. Yes, you can change iTunes's output settings for bit depth and sample rate, in -
Edit > Preferences > Playback
but I think (?) iTunes then stays locked at this output setting, up-sampling or down-sampling the source file to match.
I think (?) to do bit depth / sample rate changes on-the-fly, iTunes for Windows needs Amarra or Audirvana as a "helper" app.
Also your FLAC files - whether standard res or hi res - need to be converted to ALAC before iTunes will import them.
Of course you can test this, yourself.
But all in all, unless you really wish to use iTunes as your player application, and are prepared to pay for Amarra or Audirvana, I think foobar2000 is a better option as player application. Use iTunes to acquire your music, but use foobar to play it.