• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping E30 DAC Review

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,208
Likes
7,587
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
If the filters change with the FIR button on the remote, I can not see any difference.
As far as I can tell, the filters have different degrees of filtration of out of band frequencies, that is to say, frequencies out of our range of hearing. Although the differences can be measured, I doubt they can be heard.
 

Pdxwayne

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
3,219
Likes
1,172
Is it just me or is there zero audible differences between the filters?
Topping engineer was kind enough to provide this chart in one of my threads:
RMS Level-2.png
 

threni

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,277
Likes
1,519
Location
/dev/null
If the filters change with the FIR button on the remote, I can not see any difference.

I generated a 20kHz tone using REW and played it very loud and I could hear it, and I could hear how the filters sounded different. So they're doing something! I understand that I should not be able to hear 20kHz at all, so i'm probably hearing something else; harmonics or noise; dunno. Certainly I cannot hear that high when doing normal frequency tests, nor does the filter in normal use have any noticeable effect.

Looks like no difference to me. Anyone else could explain the difference?
The effects of the filters extend past the frequencies shown in that diagram; all filters differ at higher frequencies.
 

Sharur

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
476
Likes
213
I generated a 20kHz tone using REW and played it very loud and I could hear it, and I could hear how the filters sounded different. So they're doing something! I understand that I should not be able to hear 20kHz at all, so i'm probably hearing something else; harmonics or noise; dunno. Certainly I cannot hear that high when doing normal frequency tests, nor does the filter in normal use have any noticeable effect.


The effects of the filters extend past the frequencies shown in that diagram; all filters differ at higher frequencies.
I've seen people say filter 1 is ideal. Why is this?
 

yodog

Active Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
196
Likes
54
Is it just me or is there zero audible differences between the filters?

I notice a huge difference between the filters. I’ve been using filter 5 the most due to the time domain linearity (though frequency response does noticeably suffer). Sometimes I use filter 6 since it sounds like in between filter 3 and 4.
When I use filter 1, I notice the whole tempo of the music literally sounds slightly faster... not sure if that’s normal or not.

a bluesound node 2i via digital rca coax cable is feeding to the e30. Debating if I should upgrade to a higher up DAC, but really am unsure to what level I would need to upgrade to experience/notice a difference. I’m using Dynaudio Contour20 speakers..
 

threni

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,277
Likes
1,519
Location
/dev/null
When I use filter 1, I notice the whole tempo of the music literally sounds slightly faster... not sure if that’s normal or not.

It doesn't sound normal. At best the filters are making small changes to frequencies most people can't hear; to make the music sound faster they would additionally have to increase the speed the audio was being played back. Normally I'd suggest you do a blind test but on this occasion all you need is a stopwatch.
 

yodog

Active Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
196
Likes
54
I've seen people say filter 1 is ideal. Why is this?
I respectfully disagree. Filter 1 for sure is the loudest filter setting with the largest emphasis on the midrange that’s for sure. To sharp/fast and has little to no meat on the bones so to speak. However it does have the largest bones out of all the filters, if that analogy makes sense (it does to me, but I could be out there). I feel filter 3 is better than filter 1 in terms of listening for enjoyment (not for testing or measuring) in all cases, my opinion of course. I always find myself switching between filter 4, 5, and 6. I notice some songs I can definitely tell that filter 5 helps it sound more musical due to the more linear timing/transient response but some other songs would sound almost “too slow” or something and then it takes away from the experience because it sounds as if things are taking just a hair too long, but this could be because I’ve always heard the song through other DACs which I believe predominantly use a faster/sharper filter. I find filter 6 to be a compromise between filter 5 (super slow) and filter 3 (fast).

for my testing of the filters I like to use this track: Cinnamon Chasers - Luv Deluxe
 

yodog

Active Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
196
Likes
54
It doesn't sound normal. At best the filters are making small changes to frequencies most people can't hear; to make the music sound faster they would additionally have to increase the speed the audio was being played back. Normally I'd suggest you do a blind test but on this occasion all you need is a stopwatch.
I’ve done blind tests and can easily choose filter 5 versus filter 1 or 3 every time. That’s because to me and my system the difference between the super slow and the fast filters are night and day, at least when listening to the song I mentioned above :)
 

Sharur

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
476
Likes
213
I’ve done blind tests and can easily choose filter 5 versus filter 1 or 3 every time. That’s because to me and my system the difference between the super slow and the fast filters are night and day, at least when listening to the song I mentioned above :)
Interesting, I'll try filter 5 for some time. Thanks!
 

Sharur

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
476
Likes
213
yeah there's next to no chance i can tell these apart in a blind test.
 
Last edited:

companyja

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
151
Likes
172
Here's a somewhat troubling discovery I found - I was applying some EQ with EQ APO for a while and just for fun I wanted to see how badly my phase was butchered since EQ APO uses minimum phase IIR filters - what I discovered, however, is that on the test-run I re-did with the E30/L30 stack and EQ APO turned off, the phase was inverted! I quickly plugged in my Fiio X3 III portable DAP to check whether my focusrite interface or the E30 was going nuts, but the X3 III phase was not inverted. I then put the E30 in standby manually, woke it up, re-tested it and the phase was back to non-inverted.

Obviously, I'm applying EQ so I'm not like 100% bothered by linear phase response, but after confirming that I can apparently hear the difference between inverted and non-inverted absolute polarity on that blind listening test thingy, it is a bit annoying to find out that apparently the E30 can still invert phase...randomly? I'm going to keep it running the whole day and re-test in the evening, maybe see if it happens when the PC restarts, and whatnot. Maybe someone can test theirs if they are very bored. My unit is a 2101xx with the thesycon driver.

Bonus image: here's the phase response with and without EQ - it's inverted in both cases here but oof ouch my beautiful phase slope gets hit by a hammer when the EQ switches on hahah

JWz2Gxy.png
 

renandstimpy

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
3
Likes
1
My mileage so far with the E30 vs the Fiio K3:

As the Fiio K3 is quite portable I bought it for the workplace, with a CAL. When the pandemic set in I added a Sundara for at home - the K3 couldn't cut this powerwise so I added an iFi Zen Can, which nicely opened up things, and added also some bass with its XBass feature to the Sundara. I recently replaced the Fiio K3 with the E30, making visually for one ugly combo together with the Zen Can.

Compared to the K3 in this setup the E30 is much more revealing and spacious, music is much less "in your head", instruments seem much further apart. More separation and clarity is added overall, but especially to the voices and highs, that also seem a tad bit more forward, both of which something the Sundara has no lack of by itself. So apart from visual aesthetics a decent step forward. Not sure if I would make sense to replace the Zen Can with eg an L30, I suspect the Can produces quite some distortion at higher power, but it seems to drive the Sundara quite nicely (can't improve on the quality of the stream produced by the work laptop anyway)

Meanwhile my ears are also burned in, so swapping the Sundara for another headphone in this setup makes everything sound like it's played through cheesecloth - the Koss kph30i and CAL do sound ok - the Sundara much better though. Otherwise no pops or crackles or malfunctions, the E30 functioned flawlessly out of the box. As always, YMMV.
 

yodog

Active Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
196
Likes
54
yeah there's next to no chance i can tell these apart in a blind test.

filter 3 just adds a thickening type effect to the bass. Hence the term “short delay.” The best way i can describe it is it adds a short delay of reverb/echo/thickening of I believe all the frequencies. However I can only truly consistently identify and notice it with mid to low bass type beats and sounds. Filter 4 does the same thing but it’s based off the slower filter 2. Filter 5 does not have this effect, which also if you look at the name of the filter, it doesn’t have “short delay” written in its title.
 

Sharur

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
476
Likes
213
filter 3 just adds a thickening type effect to the bass. Hence the term “short delay.” The best way i can describe it is it adds a short delay of reverb/echo/thickening of I believe all the frequencies. However I can only truly consistently identify and notice it with mid to low bass type beats and sounds. Filter 4 does the same thing but it’s based off the slower filter 2. Filter 5 does not have this effect, which also if you look at the name of the filter, it doesn’t have “short delay” written in its title.
I just stuck with sharp 1 because it's supposedly the best
 

norcalscott

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
198
Likes
327
Location
Sierra Foothills
I just stuck with sharp 1 because it's supposedly the best
I've been trying Filter 5 and it seems to lessen bass "boominess" to some extent. I am running a SONY amp that has bass enhancement, which I like to keep turned on but with some music it does overcompensate. Filter 5 appears to help with that but I need to do more testing.
 

Sharur

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
476
Likes
213
Has anyone been able to tell the difference between filters 1 and 3?
 

sritacco

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
58
Likes
35
5Gyu1Gc.jpg

got everything running now, my Braun turntable is working well after some compatibility issues & running it through the Puffin to E30 via Toslink sounds sweet, L30 goes straight into the Quad 450 and I'm happy out....until I have the cash for RME ADI DAC but that'll take a while

Who knew? I thought brAun made coffee makers? ;-)
 
Top Bottom