Topping E30 DAC Review

[PeteL]

Discussing and complaining are two totally different things. You know the issue exists, so why keep complaining about it. It's simply meaningless.

Sorry, can you tell me where is it that I'm complaining? I said more than once that I'm not Blaming Topping, and that I was happy that the issue was raised, and that I would like this to be included in the test suite. I said that it is apparently a great find for the money, and that I would gladly buy it when we have updates. With all respect, I believe that you are not reading what I said. I ask for a suggestion, I get something in the like, from @samsa, something in the lines of "I don't know, don't care, and nobody here does so make your own verification" Exagerating slightly, but it's pretty much what it meant. Why answer then? Then now I'm a whiner, wondering based on what? I said I was glad places like this exist, it's informative, and gives me insight on some issue, saying that I was glad at least one person spotted this. So where is it I,m complaining exactly? I specificcaly said that I didn't want to denigrate topping, that they are working on a very tight budget.

 

[PeteL]

That if absolute polarity is, for some unfathomable reason, really important to you, then you should shut up, wait a month, and then order a Topping E30, because it will (at that point) be the only DAC you can be sure doesn't reverse polarity.



All this endless bitching and moaning (from various participants in this thread) serves no useful purpose.

Please think about how you might contribute something useful.

Wow, And you call this way of addressing someone contributing to something useful?

 

[NgxHS7]

Sorry, can you tell me where is it that I'm complaining? I said more than once that I'm not Blaming Topping, and that I was happy that the issue was raised, and that I would like this to be included in the test suite. I said that it is apparently a great find for the money, and that I would gladly buy it when we have updates. With all respect, I believe that you are not reading what I said. I ask for a suggestion, I get something in the like, from @samsa, something in the lines of "I don't know, don't care, and nobody here does so make your own verification" Exagerating slightly, but it's pretty much what it meant. Why answer then? Then now I'm a whiner, wondering based on what? I said I was glad places like this exist, it's informative, and gives me insight on some issue, saying that I was glad at least one person spotted this. So where is it I,m complaining exactly? I specificcaly said that I didn't want to denigrate topping, that they are working on a very tight budget.

I suspect most DAC's won't say whether they have inverted polarity or not, so asking that question won't get you anywhere. Or you could ask manufacturers directly.

 

[NgxHS7]

Yes, it tells me me that it's not a given, and it tells me that it something I will verify now. I appreciate learning, it's the beauty of discussion space like this. I fail to get your point tough, what are you trying to say? That we should not discuss this? That it's not the place to do so? Just trying to understand your gripe.

What are you exactly "discussing"? The issue with the E30? Is that what you are referring to here? Why beat a dead horse. It's known. Deal with it. Buy another product or wait for it to be fixed. Simple. No need to repeat the same thing over and over again.

 

[PeteL]

What are you exactly "discussing"? The issue with the E30? Is that what you are referring to here? Why beat a dead horse. It's known. Deal with it. Buy another product or wait for it to be fixed. Simple. No need to repeat the same thing over and over again.

I'm here because like most here, I'm passionate about audio reproduction, my point was that the point raised by other, is not an irelevent point, even if a few of you find it an annoyance that a product could be criticised for this reason.. That's all. Without those "complainers" I would not have known about this, so this is "useful" to me, maybe not to you or Samsa, but there is no wrong if some of us care, and I don't get why is that, of course the discussion we have now don't bring anything to the table, but I don't appreciate being called a whiner, Bitchy, being told to shut up so I answer if someone adress me, it was not to go on and on, I made my point, you don't like it, it's fine. it's not a dead horse, to me, because, as Samsa Rightfully said, we have no way to know as of now if DACs have the proper polarity, unless we test it ourself, that's where I see this thread have a utility, Because manufacturers listen to these community, but I'm repeating myself. Because I'd like these test be included on this site. You don't agree that's important, ok, you are allowed to but you can't judge on what's important or not for everybody interested in audio.

 

[Rick CH]

Hello please help with this if it is alright to be used?View attachment 66854

NO! That one ouputs 12volts; the dac needs 5 volt power. Bad things will happen putting 12v into the dac!

 

[PeteL]

The "complainers" have added nothing to the situation and that is the point. Perhaps you missed the fact that an audio engineer brought up the issue and smartly discussed the issue with other engineers. The "complainers" are adding nothing of value to the discussion. We know the issue exists and that it won't affect everyday playback. You have a right want the "issue" dealt with and to expect an exchange, but take it up with the company and stop adding more noise to this thread. This is not the Topping website.

Thanks, Yeah you're right I missed this part of this discussion (this thread is long). I'm an engineer myself, working in audio product development. Sorry if my point sound "unsmartly" discussed. I went trough that before and it's something we normally asses, the continuity of the proper polarity troughout the design, hence my surprise when I hear things like, there's no way to know if the absolute polarity is respected, but once again, yes the "complainers" did make me learn about this issue. On your point about "adding noise". Respectfully, if you read my comment, again, it was not a compain. I didn't go around and answer to everybody that disagree with me to tell them they are wrong, I made a comment on why I think it should be adress and why we should have more knowledge about this if as mention it is a common behaviour, now, this comment was out there for everybody to contribute, answer some interrogations, but instead what I get is basically a bunch of negativity and bashing. To me, this is what I call adding "noise" Nobody HAVE to reply, if it's unimportant for them or a non issue. I don't need a refund, I didn't buy it, but I would have if I didn't read about it here, that's why I say it's useful for me. Visibilly it's just noise to you, but you shouldn't talk for everybody, because it was not noise to me and it is of interest to some. I don't get all that outrage.

 

[samsa]

A bit of progress on the "E30 won't go into Standby mode" issue.

Background (for those who can no longer remember anything that happened in this thread before the "polarity-reversal" issue took over):

I have my E30 hooked up to a Raspberry Pi streamer, via USB. Since (at least by default), the USB bus remains powered as long as the RPi is on (which is 24/7), the E30 never goes into Standby mode. Not a huge deal, but it bothers me nonetheless.

Anyway, I seem to have found a solution.

1. Create a file /etc/udev/rules.d/usb-power.rules with a single line in it, which reads

   ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="152a", ATTR{idProduct}=="8750", TEST=="power/control", ATTR{power/control}="auto"

   The default behavior (which we are trying to change) is for the last attribute value to be "on" instead of "auto"
2. Reboot.

Now when the music stops, after a short delay, the screen on the E30 goes to "Err" and then to a single orange dot (indicating Standby mode).

And the E30 wakes up just fine, when you start playing music.

Well, almost.

• Openhome (via upmpdcli/MPD) works flawlessly.
• So does Airplay (via ShairPortSync).
• Roon sometimes doesn't realize that the DAC is still there and asks you to select a new Audio Zone. But, if you wait a minute, the Zone reappears and Roon works fine after that.

FWIW:

Raspbian 10.4 | 5.4.42-v8+ #1319 | aarch64 (64-bit)

P.S.:

I had tried this previously, with the 4.19 Kernel. It did not work reliably, The E30 would go through a weird cycle of "Err", then Standby, then wake up again, then ...

So, if anyone else tries this, it would be worth noting what Kernel version you are running.

 

[odyo]

Some of you guys really rude and acting like an owner of Topping. Stop shutting down people's concerns with rude words. This is a forum.

 

[MondoAudio]

It's not supposed to be a huge difference right? I was kind of expecting a super huge difference. The biggest jump was when I got the HD58x's.

My experience is the same as yours. Changing speakers or headphones has consistently been the single fastest way to change the sound of my systems. But the difference between a good DAC and a great DAC can require close scrutiny to hear, if I can hear it at all. I think that's why there's the old adage that your speakers should be the most expensive component in your system. As always, YMMV.

 

[PyramidElectric]

The "complainers" have added nothing to the situation and that is the point. Perhaps you missed the fact that an audio engineer brought up the issue and smartly discussed the issue with other engineers. The "complainers" are adding nothing of value to the discussion. We know the issue exists and that it won't affect everyday playback. You have a right want the "issue" dealt with and to expect an exchange, but take it up with the company and stop adding more noise to this thread. This is not the Topping website.

I'm the one who brought this up and I am not an audio engineer. I honestly think that until Topping make a statement here stating that they'll replace these E30 units with 'fixed' ones, then the noise should continue, treating first wave customers as beta testers is not acceptable, if they think it is then they should face the consequences (people continuing to talk about it). Also, although I accept that a lot of people don't care about this, I think this thread clearly shows that polarity is important to enough people to make testing it worthwhile, is this possible @amirm ? For those complaining about the polarity 'complainers' because 'you can't hear the difference anyway': When you look at all the measurements @amirm is doing on all these DACs, how many of them are resulting in figures way below audibility? Shall we not bother discussing any of these either?

 

[fominator]

I'm the one who brought this up and I am not an audio engineer. I honestly think that until Topping make a statement here stating that they'll replace these E30 units with 'fixed' ones, then the noise should continue, treating first wave customers as beta testers is not acceptable, if they think it is then they should face the consequences (people continuing to talk about it).

Absolutely right! Especially since many made the decision based on this review and this forum!

Nothing to add.

 

[NgxHS7]

Does anyone have a list of all the dacs that have been tested for polarity? It would be interesting to know.

 

[Pulkass]

Arrived 3 hours ago, good detailed sound, the high and low ends are well represented, the voices, human voices too, it lacks more consistency, more complexity, more circuitry I guess, more price, I bought it because my cambridge Audio 2010 had a whistle on rca out, then I discovered it was not present on xlr out, hooked direct to the elec. x over has a fab sound, the only problem id the elec x over has only 13 db attenuation, so the volume is really loud loud, BTW can t I see the upsampling frequency always on the display and not tis horrible =0.00 ????

 

[dpippel]

BTW can t I see the upsampling frequency always on the display and not tis horrible =0.00 ????

Sampling frequency is displayed instead of volume when you put the E30 in DAC mode, as opposed to Pre mode.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello please help with this if it is alright to be used?View attachment 66854

I don't think you can use that one because it's showing 12V for the output, you need 5V for the output. The owners manual just says 5V, doesn't give a range of possible voltages.

Well, I've read trough the comments and quite sincerely, I's great if the current owners enjoy what they got, but the thing is, most people will use it for the USB input so it's a non issue, in my case I have zero need for a USB DAC, I only need optical and coax. But before throwing rock at the unsatisfied, the thing is, topping do read forums like that, it does hurt them and the good news is, they will definitely check the polarity before launching a new product, so as a whole, the audiophile community wins. It's relevent because it is one of the purpose of a forum likethis one. To push manufacturers to up their game. You are allowed to not care, but we certainly should be allowed to care. Most people won't notice any difference if the SINAD is 95 vs if the Sinad is 115, but still, the 95 one will not get more love here and will even get a stamp of "not reccomended" Don't buy this. I feel like something objectively measurable, audible in some specific conditions of music content, should not be swept away as just complaining and bashing, and unproductive. I find quite the opposite and personally would really love to see a polarity check in the list of measurments published here. Why not? I don't want to denigrate Topping as a compagny and will let them deal with this the way they see fit, but I, for one, am happythat I read about it here, that I have been to cancel my order, so it's informative and relevent for me. I'm sure that as is, it's still a great product for the price, just not a product I want. I would have like to have been able to get such a promising little DAC for so little, but in this case, unfortunately, this set of measurments don't tell the whole story, it shows that some corners have been cut, and it is to be expected, there is no free lunch and it's very cheap. Now I just need to decide on something else (suggestions?) or I'll order this in a heart beat if we get confirmation that the spdifs in have the proper polarity.

I think the best thing for you to do is just keep an eye on this thread to await confirmation that units are being shipped with the polarity fix on the optical inputs. I think the rep said in this thread already that current stock is not fixed in terms of optical input polarity, but current production is fixed...so you'll just have to wait for the stock to clear, how long that will take I do not know....keep an eye on this thread to await confirmation.

 

[dpippel]

For anyone who ordered their E30 from Apos Audio, or is interested in purchasing from them, I've been informed that corrected production units will be available on June 10th. If you have a defective E30 bought from them that's beyond their 30 day return window, they'll replace it for you with a corrected unit as a warranty claim if you wish.

Their customer service (and fast delivery times!) has been top-notch for me. Can't recommend them highly enough.

 

[BDWoody]

Nothing to add.

Isn't that the truth...

You've made your point...over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ...

 

[Hugo9000]

One of the problems with going on and on about a known problem is that it masks other new posts that might present an issue that hasn't been raised yet.

Instead of page after page of a single, already identified problem, you could make a new thread about the specific issue and ask for others with that same particular issue to post there, so you have one place to get an idea of how widespread that issue might be.

Or you could make a poll in your own thread, asking members to vote to indicate how important that issue is to them, if at all.

Or another thread to investigate other DACs that might have the same issue (absolute polarity in this case), to get an idea if it is widespread in the industry or restricted to a few brands or a few models from certain brands.

Some of the frustration with the constant new posts about a particular known problem that was identified quite some time ago is that it takes over a thread so that other information gets lost in the 'noise' that might be as useful or more useful to others trying to decide whether to buy a product or avoid it (and possibly the brand depending on their responses to issues or concerns). It's not about silencing the voices of other members, it's about finding the most useful way of discussing concerns so that they don't obscure all other discussion of the product.

Just my two cents as someone who believes in speaking out on concerns, but who also believes it does no good if no one gets your message because they think you're shrill/obsessive/not constructive or because the message itself simply becomes lost in the general noise of an ever-growing thread.

Anywho, carry on.

 

[Toku]

Arrived 3 hours ago, good detailed sound, the high and low ends are well represented, the voices, human voices too, it lacks more consistency, more complexity, more circuitry I guess, more price, I bought it because my cambridge Audio 2010 had a whistle on rca out, then I discovered it was not present on xlr out, hooked direct to the elec. x over has a fab sound, the only problem id the elec x over has only 13 db attenuation, so the volume is really loud loud, BTW can t I see the upsampling frequency always on the display and not tis horrible =0.00 ????

Read the instruction manual before using the E30!