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Topping E30 DAC Review

hawk01

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Any reason to get E30 over D10s if I only need usb in? I wonder how does digital volume of the E30 vs windows volume and would that be a factor?
here is my take since i have both DACs. you only get the E30 if you need and will use its preamp function, otherwise both of them sound immaculate. the D10S does have a distinct feature of being a usb to spdif bridge which i also found useful connecting my minipc source to an AVR via D10S optical out. set windows volume control to max and do the adjustment via E30 for best quality.

also depending on where you are buying there is not much of a price difference between the two so it would make sense to buy the E30 feature wise unless you may need the D10S spdif bridge.
 

Robbo99999

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I noticed in this forum, and a few others, that the E30 - while incredibly capable as a DAC - seems to introduce distortion while in pre-amp mode.

I know this is not just happening in my head.

This is my budget audio home office setup:


I originally had a Schiit Modi 3 paired with an Emotiva A-100 amp.

The Emotiva introduced audible distortion for the first 15-20 minutes of listening. So I replaced it with the IOM Ncore.

Sidenote: I actually reached out to Emotiva's customer service about this pre-warm up distortion. They effectively told me this should not (read: was not) happening! Luckily, Google brought me to Amir's tests of this amp. He confirmed it was not in my head :facepalm:

The Schiit DAC sounded just fine to my ears, but I really wanted the functionality of a pre-amp, so that volume can be controlled via remote.

Hence switching up to the Topping E30. Which sounds great, btw - in DAC mode.

But in pre-amp mode, this cute little Topping is adding distortion. Has anyone figured out a solution for this?

Any combination of amp / pre-amp volume levels has not fixed it.

So to be clear,


I can of course, just use the Topping in DAC mode. But that renders the remote's volume controls unusable.

I really want this to work. In my research, I could not find another well tested dac/preamp combo at this price point.

Please help!!
I'd be surprised, I think you're imagining the distortion, unless your E30 is somehow faulty, but I doubt it.
 

Gundud

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Hi!

I'm excited about Apple Lossless and want to buy E30. The plan is MacBook Pro > Topping E30 > VSX 9900S or Denon X1400H > My old Wharfedale 9.6 or Yamaha Soavo.

But reading the earlier comment, it seems that Mac doesn't send the original bit to the DAC. What you set in Midi is going to be used, and iTunes won't change this setting according to the song played.

If my understanding is right, if I buy the E30 and set MAC midi to 24/96, then when playing 16/44 song,up-sampling will happen, if I play 24/192 then down-sampling will happen. It will only go unmolested if I play 24/96 song?

Obviously changing the midi setup for every song is no go, so is there even a reason for me to get E30 (compared to internal Macbook Dac)? What I want to achieve is clarity and transparency (no coloration).

Thanks!
 

ReaderZ

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here is my take since i have both DACs. you only get the E30 if you need and will use its preamp function, otherwise both of them sound immaculate. the D10S does have a distinct feature of being a usb to spdif bridge which i also found useful connecting my minipc source to an AVR via D10S optical out. set windows volume control to max and do the adjustment via E30 for best quality.

also depending on where you are buying there is not much of a price difference between the two so it would make sense to buy the E30 feature wise unless you may need the D10S spdif bridge.

Thanks, here in Canada it's $130 vs $200, leaning towards D10s now.
 

linuxfan

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it seems that Mac doesn't send the original bit to the DAC. What you set in Midi is going to be used, and iTunes won't change this setting according to the song played.
That's correct, but there are third-party applications for Mac which will change the Mac's sound output settings on-the-fly, as required by the audio source file:
Pure Music
http://www.channld.com/puremusic/
Amarra Luxe
https://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra4luxe.php
Audirvana
https://audirvana.com/
also BitPerfect - but I don't think this is yet compatible with Big Sur.
 

NoumenalGirl

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I'd be surprised, I think you're imagining the distortion, unless your E30 is somehow faulty, but I doubt it.

I don't think so, as it sounds perfect in DAC mode.

A quick search of this forum suggests other users, have had this same problem. Most recently megapleb just last Sunday. Not sure if he has figured it out.

But after playing around with it more this evening, the problem seems to stop when the E30 is set to very high volumes, like -10 to 0db.

So the solution may be to lower the gain on my amp, and crank up the volume on the E30 in pre-amp mode instead.
 

Gundud

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That's correct, but there are third-party applications for Mac which will change the Mac's sound output settings on-the-fly, as required by the audio source file:
Pure Music
http://www.channld.com/puremusic/
Amarra Luxe
https://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra4luxe.php
Audirvana
https://audirvana.com/
also BitPerfect - but I don't think this is yet compatible with Big Sur.

Thanks for this!

But yeah, the main point was to use iTunes on Mac :). Hopefully this is something that will happened in the future since they are now doing the lossless music business anyway.

So I guess the self justification would be buying the E30 to enjoy 24/192 music since the mac internal cant handle that. Be at peace with the up-sampling (planning is to set it at 24/192 highest iTunes can provide) and use Audirvana to listen to Flac collection.
 

NoumenalGirl

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hello sir! my topping E30 just arrived, intended for preamp use directly connected to my NAD C326BEE integrated amplifier’s power amp. so far so good as i anticipated nothing adversely discernible in SQ at any selected volume level with good resolution in its entire 99-0dB range. sadly though just like its D10S sibling, this one also has the dreadful popping noise between tracks during DSD playback. to make things even worse, i just plugged its power supply cable into a vacant usb port on my minipc music source, again all clean! what distortion are you hearing?

Think I figured it out after playing around with it more this evening! The problem seems to stop when the E30 is set to very high volumes, like -10 to 0db.

Of course, my neighbors may call the cops on me for sustained listening that loud.

But it is my understanding that DAC mode is essentially Pre-amp mode at 0db. So the solution may be to lower the gain on my amp, and crank up the volume on the E30 in pre-amp mode instead.

Hopefully someone will tell me here if there's a reason I shouldn't do this :confused:
 

hawk01

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Think I figured it out after playing around with it more this evening! The problem seems to stop when the E30 is set to very high volumes, like -10 to 0db.

Of course, my neighbors may call the cops on me for sustained listening that loud.

But it is my understanding that DAC mode is essentially Pre-amp mode at 0db. So the solution may be to lower the gain on my amp, and crank up the volume on the E30 in pre-amp mode instead.

Hopefully someone will tell me here if there's a reason I shouldn't do this :confused:
i am presntly using it in preamp mode with volume setting hovering at -21.00 to -18.5 depending on material being played. i hear nothing wrong nor distorted unless i am totally deaf. it only goes louder afte that which i do not need anymore. i also tried lowering the volume to around the middle range and clarity is still there, again no discernible distortion. it is strange you encounter differently. hope you are pleased with the outcome as i am using it in preamp mode now.
 

linuxfan

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So I guess the self justification would be buying the E30 to enjoy 24/192 music since the mac internal cant handle that. Be at peace with the up-sampling (planning is to set it at 24/192 highest iTunes can provide) and use Audirvana to listen to Flac collection.
I don't understand what you're saying, but let me check some basics:
I understand that one of the things that Audirvana will do is allow you to import FLAC files into your iTunes library (and later play them) via a proxy file - in other words it fools iTunes into thinking that the FLAC is an iTunes-compatible audio file ...
but personally I think this is convoluted, and is the wrong approach. Take a step back and consider your digital audio collection as a whole, and maybe where you want to go in the future:
- presently you prefer to use iTunes as your music player. OK, fair enough, but be aware that in new versions of MacOS it's now replaced with Apple Music. Who knows what in the future.
- you have an existing collection of FLAC files, and it would be good to be able to access these in iTunes.

OK, I would keep the FLAC files stored away on a hard drive archive, but for your present needs batch-convert them all to ALAC, and import these ALAC's into iTunes. Make sure your iTunes import preferences are set for "don't convert".
FLAC is lossless compression, ALAC is lossless compression. There's no quality loss involved.
Then when iTunes plays a hi-res ALAC file Audirvana will set Mac's core audio engine for sample rate and bit depth which matches the (hi-res) source file.
And when iTunes plays a standard-res ALAC or AAC file, Audirvana will set Mac's core audio engine back to 16bit 44.1 kHz.
 

Yoyop

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Hi, I'm a Windows user and want to try Apple music since it's lossless now.
Can I play music via iTunes trough Topping E30 using bit perfect ?

I never used iTunes before, maybe it's possible to download music via iTunes (ALAC) and use another player like foobar2000 ?

By the way, what musical stream do you use and why ? If it's not possible to switch bitrate automatically, I have to change it in Windows I guess... :/
 

tgray

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But yeah, the main point was to use iTunes on Mac :). Hopefully this is something that will happened in the future since they are now doing the lossless music business anyway.

So I guess the self justification would be buying the E30 to enjoy 24/192 music since the mac internal cant handle that. Be at peace with the up-sampling (planning is to set it at 24/192 highest iTunes can provide) and use Audirvana to listen to Flac collection.

Personal advice... Set your sampling rate at 96/24 or 192/24 in AudioMidi (or Sound Source) and just don't worry about it. I actually find it distracting when the DAC switches sampling rates. I don't even follow my own advice and just run at 44.1/24 as that is the sampling rate the bulk of my music is at. Sample rate conversion is very good nowadays.
 

linuxfan

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I'm a Windows user and want to try Apple music since it's lossless now.
Can I play music via iTunes trough Topping E30 using bit perfect ?
Yoyop, I worry that you may be confusing lossless with high-resolution.
Standard-res audio files (16bit 44.1kHz) can be losslessly compressed. High-res audio files, such as 24bit 192kHz, can be losslessly compressed.
The Apple lossless files now available from Apple Music are standard res.

I never used iTunes before, maybe it's possible to download music via iTunes (ALAC) and use another player like foobar2000 ?
Yes, easy. Just point foobar to your iTunes directory, I think it's Music\iTunes\iTunes Media

If it's not possible to switch bitrate automatically, I have to change it in Windows I guess...
I think you're confusing bitrate with bit depth and sample rate. On Mac, core audio helper apps, as mentioned above, change the system bit depth / sample rate on the fly, but with Windows this is generally not necessary - you should be able to get bit-perfect output to your DAC as long as the driver for your DAC supports WASAPI or ASIO, and if you music playback application also supports WASAPI or ASIO. There's a good forum post here on this subject -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...bie-bit-perfect-windows-10-topping-e30.18787/
foobar2000 definitely supports WASAPI and ASIO - once the corresponding foobar component has been installed -
https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio
I understand that iTunes for Windows 10 does not support ASIO, but it does support WASAPI - you should find the setting under iTunes Playback Preferences > Play Audio Using: Windows Audio Session.
 

Robbo99999

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I don't think so, as it sounds perfect in DAC mode.

A quick search of this forum suggests other users, have had this same problem. Most recently megapleb just last Sunday. Not sure if he has figured it out.

But after playing around with it more this evening, the problem seems to stop when the E30 is set to very high volumes, like -10 to 0db.

So the solution may be to lower the gain on my amp, and crank up the volume on the E30 in pre-amp mode instead.
I run my E30 at -15 to 0dB and I don't notice any problems when doing so. Maybe John Yang or someone can comment on if the E30 is even capable of increasing distortion when lowering the preamp....I mean I know you lose SINAD if you run your DAC below 0dB but really it shouldn't be an issue due to the high SINAD of this DAC to start with.
 

SgtPepper

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Hi - 1st post. My Topping E30 has arrived - Serial number 210373XXXX.

I was minding my mum's cat and didn't have my hifi gear with me to test it, but I was itching to try it out so I hooked it up to a dvd player (a Panasonic DVD S75 from 2003) via the digital coax. Outputted the sound from the dvd fine. Tried a cd and the sound intermittently broke up. I then connected it to my laptop via usb and with Foobar played lots of files thru it, and also played a cd on the computer through it - again the sound was fine.

Just got home tonight and connected it to my cd player via digital coax. Now admittedly it's an old player (Phillips CD840, from 1991, the 1st bit stream player) but when I play a cd through it the sound breaks up again.

I don't know if my unit contains the Cirrus Logic CS 8416, but it's mega recently purchased. For peace of mind has anyone else out there got a really, really recently bought E30 that they've connected up to a stand alone cd player via digital coax and played a CD thru it successfully - this is what I bought it for as I'm from a generation that back in the day bought a lot of music on CD. Maybe my unit is faulty, but it seems kind of odd to me that most of the Topping's functionality seems to be working fine. Maybe you get issues with older dvd/cd players? I mean it couldn't be the Cirrus Logic chip change could it - someone else would have noticed by now wouldn't they?
 

raif71

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Hi - 1st post. My Topping E30 has arrived - Serial number 210373XXXX.

I was minding my mum's cat and didn't have my hifi gear with me to test it, but I was itching to try it out so I hooked it up to a dvd player (a Panasonic DVD S75 from 2003) via the digital coax. Outputted the sound from the dvd fine. Tried a cd and the sound intermittently broke up. I then connected it to my laptop via usb and with Foobar played lots of files thru it, and also played a cd on the computer through it - again the sound was fine.

Just got home tonight and connected it to my cd player via digital coax. Now admittedly it's an old player (Phillips CD840, from 1991, the 1st bit stream player) but when I play a cd through it the sound breaks up again.

I don't know if my unit contains the Cirrus Logic CS 8416, but it's mega recently purchased. For peace of mind has anyone else out there got a really, really recently bought E30 that they've connected up to a stand alone cd player via digital coax and played a CD thru it successfully - this is what I bought it for as I'm from a generation that back in the day bought a lot of music on CD. Maybe my unit is faulty, but it seems kind of odd to me that most of the Topping's functionality seems to be working fine. Maybe you get issues with older dvd/cd players? I mean it couldn't be the Cirrus Logic chip change could it - someone else would have noticed by now wouldn't they?
I must have missed something...this is the 1st time I'm hearing E30 with cirrus logic?
 

linuxfan

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ALex_hha, I presume you're quoting my post #4,535. Here's how to do it correctly:
also BitPerfect - but I don't think this is yet compatible with Big Sur.

I suppose you mean "it is". That's good to hear, but are you sure? The latest version of BitPerfect is v3.2.0, released on October 10 2019, at which time they announced compatibility with macOS Catalina. Your assertion doesn't agree with several reviews on the Mac App Store -
https://apps.apple.com/app/bitperfect/id455545700#see-all/reviews
particularly reviews by mongobot 05/19/2021, and Hypops 06/05/2021.
 

SgtPepper

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I must have missed something...this is the 1st time I'm hearing E30 with cirrus logic?

Yes someone else posted a while back : "I dunno if it's been noted here but it seems like they silently revised the E30 from the AK 4118 reciever for SPDIF to a CS8416 chip. I assume there is a shortage of AKM chips that necessitated this change. I don't use SPDIF with my E30 but it might be of note to someone looking to buy it for this connection; I doubt the performance gets audibly worse or better but it probably does change the measurements on optical/coax some. "

and on Topping's site it now mentions the CS 8416 receiver:

https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/434825.html

My technical knowledge is not great but as I understand it the receiver is involved in handling data received over SPDIF i.e over digital coax - hence my concern as when I connect over digital coax the sound from cd breaks up.
 
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