Topping E30 DAC Review

[voodooless]

As I said previously, I don't think there's any way to tell, from any of these measurement, whether the filter was linear or minimum phase.

Since none of those (THD vs Freq + Multitone) involve phase obviously none of them will tell you that.

 

[Tomáš Papoušek]

All the left and right inputs of my E30 optical coaxial usb are reversed.

For such a big mistake, I think the manufacturer should consider future quality management.
Lesson learned: Never be an early adopter of new Topping products.

 

[tankas]

All the left and right inputs of my E30 optical coaxial usb are reversed.

For USB there is a firmware update.

 

[Zek]

For USB there is a firmware update.

No, the firmware is for phase inversion, Tomáš Papoušek talks about left and right channels reversing, which no one has reported yet.

 

[voodooless]

At least on USB seem to be fine here.. Latest FW.

 

[Zek]

At least on USB seem to be find here.. Latest FW.

You mean - fine....

 

[voodooless]

You mean - fine....

What he said It would also surprise me a lot if there were a L/R reversal with at the scrutiny that was applied by some people regarding the phase issue.

Anyway, Tomáš Papoušek might be a bit trolling. He subscribed today, and posted negative comments on at least 3 DAC/s, with copies of the same message in multiple topics within little more than an hour. One of the posts has an image attached to it.. the filename has some chinese characters (apparently means something like hero, elite, UK or English according to a colleague) in it and it looks like a screenshot of a video on it's side.. Very strange for a guy from Czechia..

 

[PeteL]

All the left and right inputs of my E30 optical coaxial usb are reversed.

For such a big mistake, I think the manufacturer should consider future quality management.
Lesson learned: Never be an early adopter of new Topping products.

At least this one is an easy fix... not very difficult to just reverse your 2 rca outputs? It is indeed odd tough.

 

[PeteL]

What I was talking about was in phase response not amplitude response.

I was talking about phase response too. All these filters should have a linear phase response in the lower spectrum

 

[despoiler]

When comparing DACS above a certain threshold of quality (based on measurements on this site), then differences are so small as likely to be impossible to distinguish by the human ear, therefore if you don't even take the basic steps to control everything in the listening tests (including sighted bias) then you can't really be sure if one is better or different than the other. I think it's possible to think subjectively that one sounds better than the other and that happens to me too.....I would hesitate myself to say one was better than the other but that's the light that is shed by the measurements on this site.

Believe me I understand why we ABX and the fallacies the mind injects to experience. I take great care to remember that when comparing. If I can't hear it then I can't hear it. What I described between the OL Dac v E30, without directly saying it, is the fact that I can hear that the noise floor dropped on the E30. It's not so much "the sound" it's the fact that parts of the music are more easily apparent which in turn would cause me to describe it as better. In my journey of consumer audio playback a lower noise floor is easiest to hear if there is a difference. Can you see the lower noise floor in the measurements? Do you think I am incorrect in my subjective characterization? That is what people should focus on.

If it matters I play guitar and I've been working on ear training for years. It's undeniably a skill to be able to focus on slices of music or a sound and then compare between one thing and another. Another thing you learn is how to characterize what you hear in order to compare between different gear. You can also head over to the Klippel distortion test thread and see that I'm one of the better on the forum for test results. Slightly better than amir himself. Not that this is a competition or popularity contest. The point is that my ears are pretty good as ears go.

I understand that this forum is about science, but what bugs me are the forum parrots that constantly regurgitate something they read thinking they are contributing somehow. The constant drone of "did you setup a Harman caliber ABX test? No? Well nothing you said happened", is ridiculous. When someone already labelled their experience as subjective it's enough to know they understand the limitations. Never-the-less the parrots will be there to parrot.

 

[Toku]

All the left and right inputs of my E30 optical coaxial usb are reversed.

For such a big mistake, I think the manufacturer should consider future quality management.
Lesson learned: Never be an early adopter of new Topping products.

I've tested two E30s and everything is fine.

 

[JohnYang1997]

There has never been an issue of left right reverse. It's never a thing.

 

[JohnYang1997]

All the left and right inputs of my E30 optical coaxial usb are reversed.

For such a big mistake, I think the manufacturer should consider future quality management.
Lesson learned: Never be an early adopter of new Topping products.

Or did you mean the color of the socket?

 

[voodooless]

The colors are just fine.. The guy is just trolling.. If not, I'd love to see any half-way believable proof that he actually owns an E30.

 

[voodooless]

My Red is Right, so is the picture on the review. It also conforms to what wikipedia says. So is this one: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../review-and-measurements-of-fiio-k5-pro.9118/, or this one https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-dx7-pro-dac-and-headphone-amp-reviewed.9446/, and this one https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/ (just a random selection of reviewed DAC's)

Of course you could also argue about the position of L and R connectors.. Makes a lot of sense to me the way it is.. the R is on the left side, so seen from the front the right side (which seems logical).

 

[solderdude]

I think what @Tomáš Papoušek means is that when you look at the back of the E30 the Right channel (Red color) that is also correctly marked 'R ch' is on the left side of the E30 rear side.
I think he would have wanted the Rch to be on the right side of the Lch when looking at it from the back.

I don't think he means L and R are swapped electrically. As there are no pictures of what he means he also could have a red RCA on the 'L ch' position but doubt this.

 

[voodooless]

I think what @Tomáš Papoušek means is that when you look at the back of the E30 the Right channel (Red color) that is also correctly marked 'R ch' is on the left side of the E30 rear side.
I think he would have wanted the Rch to be on the right side of the Lch when looking at it from the back.

No:

All the left and right inputs of my E30 optical coaxial usb are reversed.

What would optical or coax have to do with any of that? And in any case, RME should know right?

Anyway, he got exactly what he came for: us over some insignificant non-issue..

 

[solderdude]

What would optical or coax have to do with any of that?
.

Consider that he calls outputs 'inputs'. It's something I often see, people calling outputs 'inputs' because they plug in an RCA plug.

It is the only logical explanation that remotely makes sense.
But even when this is the case it is indeed a non issue.
Besides, when I look at my E30 from the front my Right RCA is on the right.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Believe me I understand why we ABX and the fallacies the mind injects to experience. I take great care to remember that when comparing. If I can't hear it then I can't hear it. What I described between the OL Dac v E30, without directly saying it, is the fact that I can hear that the noise floor dropped on the E30. It's not so much "the sound" it's the fact that parts of the music are more easily apparent which in turn would cause me to describe it as better. In my journey of consumer audio playback a lower noise floor is easiest to hear if there is a difference. Can you see the lower noise floor in the measurements? Do you think I am incorrect in my subjective characterization? That is what people should focus on.

If it matters I play guitar and I've been working on ear training for years. It's undeniably a skill to be able to focus on slices of music or a sound and then compare between one thing and another. Another thing you learn is how to characterize what you hear in order to compare between different gear. You can also head over to the Klippel distortion test thread and see that I'm one of the better on the forum for test results. Slightly better than amir himself. Not that this is a competition or popularity contest. The point is that my ears are pretty good as ears go.

I understand that this forum is about science, but what bugs me are the forum parrots that constantly regurgitate something they read thinking they are contributing somehow. The constant drone of "did you setup a Harman caliber ABX test? No? Well nothing you said happened", is ridiculous. When someone already labelled their experience as subjective it's enough to know they understand the limitations. Never-the-less the parrots will be there to parrot.

well,, yeah...but this is a public forum and while you are totally entitled to your own subjective impressions, if those appear to be founded upon things that can't be heard you shouldn't be surprised to be challenged on them. Especially here where one of the fundamental premises is that our subjective impressions are often utter BS. I know mine are. The fact that you understand those limitations doesn't change the reality of their existence.

In the end, there's no real solution. You are entitled to your subjective impressions, and I'm entitled to ignore them. I mean the fact is, even if someone says they have done a blind ABX test and were able to reliably identify one apparently-transparent DAC from another, I wouldn't believe them unless some third party I trusted was part of the test. People can say anything on the internet right?

 

[Robbo99999]

Believe me I understand why we ABX and the fallacies the mind injects to experience. I take great care to remember that when comparing. If I can't hear it then I can't hear it. What I described between the OL Dac v E30, without directly saying it, is the fact that I can hear that the noise floor dropped on the E30. It's not so much "the sound" it's the fact that parts of the music are more easily apparent which in turn would cause me to describe it as better. In my journey of consumer audio playback a lower noise floor is easiest to hear if there is a difference. Can you see the lower noise floor in the measurements? Do you think I am incorrect in my subjective characterization? That is what people should focus on.

If it matters I play guitar and I've been working on ear training for years. It's undeniably a skill to be able to focus on slices of music or a sound and then compare between one thing and another. Another thing you learn is how to characterize what you hear in order to compare between different gear. You can also head over to the Klippel distortion test thread and see that I'm one of the better on the forum for test results. Slightly better than amir himself. Not that this is a competition or popularity contest. The point is that my ears are pretty good as ears go.

I understand that this forum is about science, but what bugs me are the forum parrots that constantly regurgitate something they read thinking they are contributing somehow. The constant drone of "did you setup a Harman caliber ABX test? No? Well nothing you said happened", is ridiculous. When someone already labelled their experience as subjective it's enough to know they understand the limitations. Never-the-less the parrots will be there to parrot.

I can't remember the post I had originally replied to that you then quoted my post today, it was probably a week ago or something and I think the conversation has moved on rightly.....but congrats on your ears.