Topping DX5II Balanced DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[CuriousAli]

On Windows, you can change the DAC streaming in the driver to be always on rather than only on when needed. Since there are no drivers, technically (I'm guessing because they want to have more control over things), Apple can tweak whatever their equivalent to a driver happens to be to either add an option in the Sound settings for people set the DAC streaming to be always on or they do it in the background/under the hood.

They could have made a driver for Mac, there is no technical limit, even though Apple is making "kernel extensions" or "kexts" hard to use as a deprecated method, there are "system extensions" as their replacement, and kexts still can work with some security settings changes.
The reason there is usually no driver made for macOS is the CoreAudio is capable enough and there is no need for such a driver.
I don't know if it is as simple as releasing a firmware update or tool to change that Streaming setting on the Mac, I can only say on some of my devices like SSL 12 and Audient iD24 there is no delay/pop on Mac, but on Fiio KA17 such a phenomena happens.

 

[JIW]

I did some more testing the same way as above. This time I measured impedance. First, with the charger disconnected. With the screen disconnected, with the USB cable connected impedance is 16 Ohm and with it disconnected the impedance is beyond what the multimeter can measure, i.e. more than 9999 MOhm. With the screen connected, with USB disconnected impedance is beyond what the multimeter can measure and with USB connected impedance is 0.0 Ohm.

With the charger connected, with the screen disconnected, it is 13-14 Ohm nstead of 16 Ohm and 5.2 MOhm instead of exceeding the limit of the meter. With the screen connected, with USB disconnected impedance exceeds the limit of the meter and with USB connected impedance is 0.0 Ohm.

Impedance between DX5 II ground and the power strip ground is 6 Ohm with screen, charger and USB connected, 6 Ohm with screen and USB connected, 0.0 Ohm with USB connected only, 0.0 Ohm with no connections, 0.0 Ohm with screen and charger connected but USB disconnected. Voltage at 6 Ohm is 1 mV DC and 0.000 V AC.

With both the XLR disconnected on top of the charger and the screen being disconnected impedance is 1.2 Ohm. With one XLR disconnnect it is 0.2 Ohm. The speakers were turned off for all measurements.

Even with 0 Ohm, 0 V AC and DC between DX 5 II and power strip, the popping still occurs on HPA SE.

 

[wavetrade]

On Windows, you can change the DAC streaming in the driver to be always on rather than only on when needed. Since there are no drivers, technically (I'm guessing because they want to have more control over things), Apple can tweak whatever their equivalent to a driver happens to be to either add an option in the Sound settings for people set the DAC streaming to be always on or they do it in the background/under the hood. I will refer you to this post:

XMOS driver settings for no cutoff/delay

Es apsvēru iespēju izveidot sava veida "pamācību" visiem XMOS draiveriem ierīcēs, kurām ir nogrieznis — latentums starp skaņas sākumu un dac "reaģēšanu" un šīs skaņas atskaņošanu... Tātad šeit tas ir: XMOS draiveri izmanto vadības paneli, kas atšķiras no šī: Parasti izvēlnes "Opcijas", kas ir...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You might need to pay a little closer attention, then because the popping is there. It's there on my Mac Mini M1, and it's there on my Macbook Air M2. It's there with three different Topping DACs, and it was also there with an SMSL RAW MDA-1. I'm also not the only one who has this problem.

Oh, I am definitely paying attention to my mac/dac interactions. My three current dac's definitely do not pop. I am not using headphones but have turned things up and listened before. These three dac's are RME ADI-2 DAC, SMSL DO100 and Topping E70 Velvet.

With the above said, I have had some popping DAC's. The worst offender was a SMSL DL200 that popped all the time, and loudly.

Given this I don't see Apple as the one having the problem. It seems to be something with some of the DAC's. I far prefer how apple handles sound compared to windows pc's. I had nothing but troubles with windows drivers and my DAC's. While Apple doesn't have the direct stream, it consistently works and sounds great. I tried some experiments streaming Tidal and Quboz through Roon where I could have a verifiable direct stream. I compared this to Apple Music which is in no way direct. But could never tell a difference.

 

[ziggurcat]

Oh, I am definitely paying attention to my mac/dac interactions. My three current dac's definitely do not pop. I am not using headphones but have turned things up and listened before. These three dac's are RME ADI-2 DAC, SMSL DO100 and Topping E70 Velvet.

With the above said, I have had some popping DAC's. The worst offender was a SMSL DL200 that popped all the time, and loudly.

Given this I don't see Apple as the one having the problem. It seems to be something with some of the DAC's. I far prefer how apple handles sound compared to windows pc's. I had nothing but troubles with windows drivers and my DAC's. While Apple doesn't have the direct stream, it consistently works and sounds great. I tried some experiments streaming Tidal and Quboz through Roon where I could have a verifiable direct stream. I compared this to Apple Music which is in no way direct. But could never tell a difference.

In all of my testing, the popping doesn't increase with volume, so turning up the volume won't do much, and it's more evident when putting your ear very close to the speaker driver -- within 1ft or less (it also seems to be more apparent from the woofer rather than the tweeter). If either of those DACs have Low/Medium/High gain settings, High tends to make it more noticeable as well (for example, on Low gain using the HPA SE output on the DX5 II, no popping can be heard, but on High gain it is). If I were to sit the same distance I sit from my HT speakers, it wouldn't be audible at all, but because I use headphones, and sit less than 2ft of my desktop speakers, it's audible. Anything further than that, and I don't hear a thing.

Since the signal is coming from the computer, and the popping is related to the streaming of data from the source (i.e. the Mac), I think it's a problem for them to resolve. For both, really, since either of them can technically fix it if they wanted. Which Macs do you use, btw (and what OS version)?

 

[wavetrade]

In all of my testing, the popping doesn't increase with volume, so turning up the volume won't do much, and it's more evident when putting your ear very close to the speaker driver -- within 1ft or less (it also seems to be more apparent from the woofer rather than the tweeter). If either of those DACs have Low/Medium/High gain settings, High tends to make it more noticeable as well (for example, on Low gain using the HPA SE output on the DX5 II, no popping can be heard, but on High gain it is). If I were to sit the same distance I sit from my HT speakers, it wouldn't be audible at all, but because I use headphones, and sit less than 2ft of my desktop speakers, it's audible. Anything further than that, and I don't hear a thing.

Since the signal is coming from the computer, and the popping is related to the streaming of data from the source (i.e. the Mac), I think it's a problem for them to resolve. For both, really, since either of them can technically fix it if they wanted. Which Macs do you use, btw (and what OS version)?

Fair enough. You compelled me to stick my ear up to my speakers and give it a try. Tried at each of the speaker drivers and still no pop. Then tried the same with my second setup and still no pop. I dunno... As for the dac's, system one is the ADI-2 with the outputs running at max gain (I think 10 volts running into a NCx500 amp with buffer disabled). System 2 is with the DO100 running at 5 or so volts into a A7.

As for the Mac's, they are all Mac Mini's. Systems 1 & 2 are M4's and system 3 is a M2. All are running Sequoia 15.6.1. Read too many horror stories about Tahoe to make that jump yet. One of the M4's was previously (recently) a M1 Mac Mini that didn't pop either. Finally, just for the heck of it I just plugged a M4 Macbook pro into system 2 and gave it a shot. No pop. My tests were using Tidal (supposedly direct), Quboz (acts direct) and Apple Music. I let my roon subscription expire so didn't try it.

I sincerely hope you do figure out what is going on. Once Amazon has some DX5 II's available as "Prime" I will be ordering one. I really like the looks and hope I can continue to be popless. As a side note, I do sometimes get delayed starts (missing the beginning of songs) and erratic behavior when using Soundsource to EQ. This is why I want the DX5 II, so I can EQ at the dac like I do with the ADI-2.

 

[ziggurcat]

Fair enough. You compelled me to stick my ear up to my speakers and give it a try. Tried at each of the speaker drivers and still no pop. Then tried the same with my second setup and still no pop. I dunno... As for the dac's, system one is the ADI-2 with the outputs running at max gain (I think 10 volts running into a NCx500 amp with buffer disabled). System 2 is with the DO100 running at 5 or so volts into a A7.

As for the Mac's, they are all Mac Mini's. Systems 1 & 2 are M4's and system 3 is a M2. All are running Sequoia 15.6.1. Read too many horror stories about Tahoe to make that jump yet. One of the M4's was previously (recently) a M1 Mac Mini that didn't pop either. Finally, just for the heck of it I just plugged a M4 Macbook pro into system 2 and gave it a shot. No pop. My tests were using Tidal (supposedly direct), Quboz (acts direct) and Apple Music. I let my roon subscription expire so didn't try it.

I sincerely hope you do figure out what is going on. Once Amazon has some DX5 II's available as "Prime" I will be ordering one. I really like the looks and hope I can continue to be popless. As a side note, I do sometimes get delayed starts (missing the beginning of songs) and erratic behavior when using Soundsource to EQ. This is why I want the DX5 II, so I can EQ at the dac like I do with the ADI-2.

If you wouldn't mind trying playing from local files or try playing any song from Bandcamp online. If either of those streaming services (Tidal/Apple Music) are like Qobuz, the popping might not happen since they might constantly stream data to the DAC. One of the tricks in eliminating the popping is to literally have Qobuz running in the background (no need to play anything in Qobuz, just boot the app, and set the appropriate DAC as the output device).

Alternatively, don't boot any of those streaming apps, and simply go into the sound settings, and play a system sound (System Settings > Sound > Alert Sound). I even get two pops when I move something to the trash because it plays a system sound when doing that (right click any file > Move to Trash).

 

[ziggurcat]

Topping came back with this just moments ago:

"Regarding your first feedback issue, there's a popping sound when playing or pausing audio with USB input. If it's a brief, slight sound like in video playback, it's normal, as it's the sound of the internal data stream switching. So you can use it with confidence."

I feel like someone with more technical knowledge needs to contact them to drive fixing the issue into their heads. Its like... yeah, we know it's the internal data streaming, and that's the problem, so I guess it's up to Apple to do something (which I am not exactly confident on, either). Or someone get in touch with someone at XMOS.

 

[staticV3]

Topping came back with this just moments ago:

"Regarding your first feedback issue, there's a popping sound when playing or pausing audio with USB input. If it's a brief, slight sound like in video playback, it's normal, as it's the sound of the internal data stream switching. So you can use it with confidence."

I feel like someone with more technical knowledge needs to contact them to drive fixing the issue into their heads. Its like... yeah, we know it's the internal data streaming, and that's the problem, so I guess it's up to Apple to do something (which I am not exactly confident on, either). Or someone get in touch with someone at XMOS.

If you start playing digital silence from DAC standby, and there's still a pop, then that's irrefutably a bug.

Other DACs handle this test perfectly with no output whatsoever, which proves that the internal data stream switching does not inherently produce a sound.

It results in a pop only if the DAC is programmed poorly/erroneously.

 

[JIW]

If you wouldn't mind trying playing from local files or try playing any song from Bandcamp online. If either of those streaming services (Tidal/Apple Music) are like Qobuz, the popping might not happen since they might constantly stream data to the DAC. One of the tricks in eliminating the popping is to literally have Qobuz running in the background (no need to play anything in Qobuz, just boot the app, and set the appropriate DAC as the output device).

Alternatively, don't boot any of those streaming apps, and simply go into the sound settings, and play a system sound (System Settings > Sound > Alert Sound). I even get two pops when I move something to the trash because it plays a system sound when doing that (right click any file > Move to Trash).

The system sounds can also be played through a device other than the one used for music and sound playback. It can be seen in the Audio MIDI Setup by the ringing bell icon. It can be changed in the sound settings. I have set it to my external screen.

 

[wavetrade]

If you wouldn't mind trying playing from local files or try playing any song from Bandcamp online. If either of those streaming services (Tidal/Apple Music) are like Qobuz, the popping might not happen since they might constantly stream data to the DAC. One of the tricks in eliminating the popping is to literally have Qobuz running in the background (no need to play anything in Qobuz, just boot the app, and set the appropriate DAC as the output device).

Alternatively, don't boot any of those streaming apps, and simply go into the sound settings, and play a system sound (System Settings > Sound > Alert Sound). I even get two pops when I move something to the trash because it plays a system sound when doing that (right click any file > Move to Trash).

I shut down everything except a browser and tried sounds (running through my dac) and flipped through about 20 tracks on bandcamp. No real popping to report, although there was a soft pop with one of the bandcamp songs. It was repeatable and only happened with this one track. Not sure what is going on there.

Got a DX5 II ordered, should be here monday.

 

[ziggurcat]

If you start playing digital silence from DAC standby, and there's still a pop, then that's irrefutably a bug.

Other DACs handle this test perfectly with no output whatsoever, which proves that the internal data stream switching does not inherently produce a sound.

It results in a pop only if the DAC is programmed poorly/erroneously.

If there's an option on Windows to change the data streaming, then there should be an option on Mac to change it as well -- how it's done or who does it, I honestly don't care. Workarounds such as placing additional devices into the connection chain or running a different app in the background should be completely unnecessary, and I would argue that if one needs to find workarounds to prevent something from happening, that is inherently a bug. If you play a video game on PC, and encounter a issue, but are told you can avoid it altogether if you do X, Y, or Z, that doesn't mean that it's not an issue if someone with a different system configuration (i.e. Mac or other PC system with different HW components) doesn't have the issue.

We know this doesn't necessarily require a HW solution. We also know that it doesn't happen with all DACs nor is it specific to any singular manufacturer. And with the latest MacOS (Tahoe 26.1), the behaviour has changed slightly from Sequoia 15.6.1 in that there is a much longer delay (somewhere north of 5 seconds, I haven't brought out a stopwatch to get a precise time) between the moment music has stopped/been paused, and when the pop occurs (though it is still immediately after system sounds are played). I think it also says something when -- for me -- no pop happens if HPA SE is used with the Low gain setting, but will be there if High gain is being used.

 

[JIW]

If you start playing digital silence from DAC standby, and there's still a pop, then that's irrefutably a bug.

Other DACs handle this test perfectly with no output whatsoever, which proves that the internal data stream switching does not inherently produce a sound.

It results in a pop only if the DAC is programmed poorly/erroneously.

I have created a file of all zeros for my own testing using Python. It produces popping over USB. It does not produce popping using a SMSL PO100 2024 with either optical or coaxial input.

I cannot attach either the program or the audio file, however, so I have added the program code as a txt-file. Change the ending to .py and it will work as a python program. I have attached a picture of it and the console output below.

 

[dmac6419]

Topping needs to do better, you send me a unit used like new that's dead on arrival, they didn't even bother to troubleshoot the unit before they sold it again, this is The United States or what's left of it, fool me once wont fool me twice I'm done with topping, I'll shop elsewhere because of this. Never even powered on and it smelled like it was burnt oh and it was shipped from Topping San Jose California so you have a presence here in the states and you do this silly schitt. I think these units are going to be recalled like the dx3 was recalled just wait and see.

 

[LSDionysus]

I have created a file of all zeros for my own testing using Python. It produces popping over USB. It does not produce popping using a SMSL PO100 2024 with either optical or coaxial input.

I cannot attach either the program or the audio file, however, so I have added the program code as a txt-file. Change the ending to .py and it will work as a python program. I have attached a picture of it and the console output below.
View attachment 495114

Amazing work, @JIW

 

[ziggurcat]

The latest response from Topping on the data streaming issue:

"Regarding the “popping” phenomenon occurring on the USB interface under macOS, we fully understand your concerns and agree that this is not an ideal user experience. As you mentioned, the Windows platform allows users to enable continuous data streaming through the XMOS driver panel, while the USB audio architecture on macOS is entirely system-managed. It does not permit modification of the underlying data-stream behavior, nor can it maintain a continuous output through driver-level control as Windows does. The current workaround (such as keeping background audio streams active) is not intended to treat this behavior as “normal,” but rather as a temporary measure given that macOS does not allow us to adjust these mechanisms directly.

Precisely because macOS does not support driver-level data-stream control, we are internally evaluating other potential solutions. If we identify a feasible, stable approach that does not violate USB specifications or affect system compatibility, we will make it available to you and all users as soon as possible."

All of that makes total sense, and I understand their position. It doesn't exactly help that Apple is so closed-off, either. Hopefully they can figure something out. It would be nice to be able to use these devices without having to jump through any workaround hoops. It might be worth compiling a list of DACs that do not exhibit this behaviour on Mac (which would be a completely different thread).

 

[CedarX]

It might be worth compiling a list of DACs that do not exhibit this behaviour on Mac (which would be a completely different thread).

The list would only be interesting as a validation of Topping's explanation: if indeed it is MacOS-related and each DAC behavior is thoroughly evaluated, the list should remain empty...

 

[Berwhale]

It results in a pop only if the DAC is programmed poorly/erroneously.

...and it's connected to a Mac.

 

[Berwhale]

I have created a file of all zeros for my own testing using Python. It produces popping over USB. It does not produce popping using a SMSL PO100 2024 with either optical or coaxial input.

I cannot attach either the program or the audio file, however, so I have added the program code as a txt-file. Change the ending to .py and it will work as a python program. I have attached a picture of it and the console output below.
View attachment 495114

Just to be clear, you are sending a constant stream of '0' to the DX5 II and then when you play music from another application, then you get the popping?

 

[Berwhale]

The list would only be interesting as a validation of Topping's explanation: if indeed it is MacOS-related and each DAC behavior is thoroughly evaluated, the list should remain empty...

Wouldn't the audibility and loudness of the popping depend on lots of other factors besides the DAC? I think you'd want to measure each DAC with an audio analyser rather than rely on anecdotal evidence here.

 

[JIW]

Just to be clear, you are sending a constant stream of '0' to the DX5 II and then when you play music from another application, then you get the popping?

I am just sending zeros with the file and playing and pausing that. That alone produces the popping.