Topping DX5II Balanced DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[oleg87]

I know but watching one review of the K13 the reviewer mentions how it sounds smoother and more soothing and wider than the Topping. Also insinuates that the Topping sounds harsh in the highs and thus fatiguing in the long run and that he has to turn down the volume because of that.

Well, it's the usual imaginary subjective gibberish. Both have flat frequency response from dc to daylight.

If your headphones are "harsh in the highs", well, that's why you've got PEQ.

 

[Berwhale]

So how do you update the app settings with the on-device settings without destroying anything? And dont you set them through the app most of the time anyway so there shouldnt be any synch issues to begin with?

There does not appear to be a way to get the app to read the on device PEQ configs once it is out of sync.

Typically, I end up in a state with EQ1 and EQ2 on the DX5 II for my MTM and HD660S with the app only showing the EQ1-5 as default configs.

If I don't touch the EQ configs in the app, then the configs on the DX5 II are fine and this is how I usually leave it.

If I want to change the configs on the DX5 II, then I have to write new configs to it as EQ6 and EQ7 (these are the first available configs as far as the app is concerned) and then delete all the default configs, leaving me with EQ1 and EQ2 again for my MTMs and HD660s (I have tried leaving EQ1-5 on the DX5 II, but the app still looses track of EQ6 & 7 leaving me with EQ1-5 default configs in the app).

It doesn't matter if I right click on a local config and select 'store to device' or select a local config and then press the '+' next to User Config to get the PEQ config from Topping.Tune to the DX5 II. I have also entered configs 'manually', straight into a User Config and they get lost too.

 

[Hapo]

...one issue I am having right off the bat is when I finally fumble my way into PEQ select it comes back DISABLED...

...there are no manual or instructions in the box...I guess I am supposed to scan a card...

...already not liking this...

...ok, I like it better now...downloading Topping Tune and selecting enabled helped...I just kept reading stuff in here, didn't scan anything...

I know but watching one review of the K13 the reviewer mentions how it sounds smoother and more soothing and wider than the Topping. Also insinuates that the Topping sounds harsh in the highs and thus fatiguing in the long run and that he has to turn down the volume because of that.

...just selecting Config EQ4:Warm seems to address this nicely...fuk if I don't get an illusion of width...or delusion...???...

...I don't think I am sending this back, even though I am still stuck with one piece of Schiit in the system, @ SYS, so I can connect Roland FP-10 piano...

...I have DCA AeonRT Closed headphones but am running SE sound system...

...a lot of the PEQ stuff you guys are talking is way over my head...

 

[ziggurcat]

There does not appear to be a way to get the app to read the on device PEQ configs once it is out of sync.

Typically, I end up in a state with EQ1 and EQ2 on the DX5 II for my MTM and HD660S with the app only showing the EQ1-5 as default configs.

If I don't touch the EQ configs in the app, then the configs on the DX5 II are fine and this is how I usually leave it.

If I want to change the configs on the DX5 II, then I have to write new configs to it as EQ6 and EQ7 (these are the first available configs as far as the app is concerned) and then delete all the default configs, leaving me with EQ1 and EQ2 again for my MTMs and HD660s (I have tried leaving EQ1-5 on the DX5 II, but the app still looses track of EQ6 & 7 leaving me with EQ1-5 default configs in the app).

It doesn't matter if I right click on a local config and select 'store to device' or select a local config and then press the '+' next to User Config to get the PEQ config from Topping.Tune to the DX5 II. I have also entered configs 'manually', straight into a User Config and they get lost too.

I truly don't understand how any of that is happening. Do you happen to have PEQ Config disabled at any point? It's the only time I've seen things not stick, and even then it wasn't entire profiles, and nothing has come back in TT after it's been completely deleted for me.

And has Topping even addressed this with you? If so, what are they saying about this?

 

[Berwhale]

I truly don't understand how any of that is happening. Do you happen to have PEQ Config disabled at any point? It's the only time I've seen things not stick, and even then it wasn't entire profiles, and nothing has come back in TT after it's been completely deleted for me.

And has Topping even addressed this with you? If so, what are they saying about this?

I don't touch anything after its all setup and Topping Tune is closed. I haven't bothered to contact Topping because it's not a bit issue for me.

 

[ziggurcat]

I don't touch anything after its all setup and Topping Tune is closed. I haven't bothered to contact Topping because it's not a bit issue for me.

Is PEQ Config on the DX5 II enabled when you're doing all of the setup?

I would absolutely mention this to Topping regardless of how big of a deal it is, otherwise it will never get fixed -- they can only fix what's been brought to their attention.

 

[ziggurcat]

@Mario1969

Hopefully this works, but I've attached a video of the issue. I made a second one this evening with much faster steps to reproduce (in the video I made last night, I waited until the computer woke up my devices, but in this one, I forced them to wake up by clicking the mouse a few times)

Here's the Google Drive link:

DX5II_HISS_2.MOV

drive.google.com

I believe it should be set to allow anyone with the link to access the video, but please let me know if there's any issues. The issue requires the following connection conditions:

Mac Mini M1 (2020) but any Mac might work (At this time, I do not know if this will happen with PC because there are other things, like drivers, that PC users have access to that Mac users don't) > USB > Topping D10s (but I think any USB DDC would work) > TOSLINK > DX5 II

On the DX5 II, I only have the OPT input selectable in the settings, but I still maintain a USB connection between my Mac and DX5 II because it still allows me to transfer data to the DX5 II even with the USB input disabled in the settings. PEQ Config is Enabled, and the On/Off Trigger is set to Signal. The DX5 II is also set to preamp mode.

Under those connection conditions, all that is required to trigger the issue seem to be:

1. Play some audio from any source (local app or web-based source like Bandcamp -- I chose Bandcamp in this instance). I don't think the length of time you play the audio matters, but give it a good 10 or so seconds
2. Pause/stop the audio then on the Mac, go to the Apple icon > Sleep
3. Wait until all devices have gone fully into standby mode
4. Wait a few seconds, then wake the devices up by clicking on the mouse a few times.

After 10 or so seconds, a hiss in the Right channel should occur. Playing any audio, turning off the unit from the back switch or even pressing the C1/C2 buttons on the remote will cause the hiss to stop.

I believe the issue happens because when the computer wakes the devices up, it tries to auto-select the USB input on the DX5 II, which is not a selectable input. I have tried to get Topping to fix this in a previous bug report -- that if the DX5 II is set to Manual in the Input Option menu, that the DX5 II should not auto-select the USB input if it is active in the settings (at the time I reported this, I only had OPT and USB active because I thought the USB input needed to be an available input in order to use TT/update FW).

 

[leungie]

I can order from china through a freight forwarder, if only you could give me a link. The other user said its much more expensive on aliexpress and idk where else to look.

Sorry, time differences... there you go

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?abbucket=20&id=937608840784&mi_id=0000A_NWVkmpEzRMB9jQp9XR4I3U9YIG6ZHWqPekodXR_4w&ns=1&priceTId=2100c80717630048178356759e08e7&skuId=5997015719653&spm=a21n57.1.hoverItem.2&utparam=%7B%22aplus_abtest%22%3A%22238322ffecced371654dff5ffb4c5f7b%22%7D&xxc=taobaoSearch

 

[Hapo]

...I would imagine the counterfeit DX5II's are not ready yet...

 

[leungie]

...I would imagine the counterfeit DX5II's are not ready yet...

Lol yeah. Be careful don't buy from the link. The official topping store in china.

 

[Mario1969]

1. Play some audio from any source (local app or web-based source like Bandcamp -- I chose Bandcamp in this instance). I don't think the length of time you play the audio matters, but give it a good 10 or so seconds
2. Pause/stop the audio then on the Mac, go to the Apple icon > Sleep
3. Wait until all devices have gone fully into standby mode
4. Wait a few seconds, then wake the devices up by clicking on the mouse a few times.

After 10 or so seconds, a hiss in the Right channel should occur. Playing any audio, turning off the unit from the back switch or even pressing the C1/C2 buttons on the remote will cause the hiss to stop.

I believe the issue happens because when the computer wakes the devices up, it tries to auto-select the USB input on the DX5 II, which is not a selectable input. I have tried to get Topping to fix this in a previous bug report -- that if the DX5 II is set to Manual in the Input Option menu, that the DX5 II should not auto-select the USB input if it is active in the settings (at the time I reported this, I only had OPT and USB active because I thought the USB input needed to be an available input in order to use TT/update FW).

What are the speakers connected to? Since LO BAL is -50 dB, I don't quite understand how it's connected. Reduce the frequency to 44.1 and see if there is any hissing.

 

[ziggurcat]

What are the speakers connected to? Since LO BAL is -50 dB, I don't quite understand how it's connected. Reduce the frequency to 44.1 and see if there is any hissing.

Speakers are connected to my 3e Audio A7 (the black void with the red light under the DX5 II in the video), which is connected to the DX5 II via XLR. It doesn't matter whether it's HPA or LO, the issue happens on either output. LO is only used for the video so that the issue is immediately audible. There's no reason for me to crank the volume for the test, so I kept it low out of politeness to my wife (but also, -50dB from less than 2ft away isn't that quiet to my ears IRL, and it's only about 5-10dB quieter than I normally keep it at any given time). That's why the DX5 II was set at -50dB. I have the D10s in the chain because it resolves a popping issue from my Mac's USB output (which I just discovered doesn't happen if I use a web-based source like Bandcamp or YouTube, it will only happen if I use the Mac's Music app or if I play a system notification sound). The D10s is merely acting as a bridge between my Mac and DX5 II (the D10s' DAC chip is bypassed in this configuration, so I'm not doubling up on DACs).

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with the sample rate because if I remove the D10s completely out of the chain, and only use the USB input on the DX5 II, the problem doesn't happen. Also, if I leave things as is, but sever the USB connection between my Mac and DX5 II, the issue does not occur. If I have things as they are, and set both OPT and USB as active in the Input Option menu, the issue also does not occur. I really do think it's because the DX5 II is searching for an input to switch to (i.e. USB in this case) that hasn't been made available in the settings because the DX5 II will auto-select the input regardless of how you have things set. I think that is what the bug is, and the hiss is a product of that.

That being said, I won't dismiss what you've suggested entirely, and I'll test dropping the sample rate down to 44.1kHz when I have the time this evening.

Edit:

@Mario1969 OK, so I conducted more tests, and dropped the sample rate down to 44.1kHz as you suggested. No hiss. Then raised it to 96kHz. No hiss. Then raised it to 176.4kHz. Hiss. I have another USB DDC (the SMSL PO100 Pro) that I will try out as well, and see if it's maybe the D10s that's the culprit. I did have an issue before where there was a whole lot of stuttering when setting the sample rate above 96kHz with the D50 III DAC. I'll test out the PO100 Pro, and report my findings as son as I can (I may not be this evening, though). Did all of this testing wearing my headphones, and I could immediately tell when the hiss was going to happen because when the devices woke up, there was a slight pop in the right channel, and around 10 seconds later, the hiss kind of sputters then fades in to its loudest state.

Edit 2:

I found much faster steps that eliminates all of the waiting. Using the same connection configuration I've previously outlined, only the following steps are required:

1. Play and pause any audio (once again, I used the Bandcamp website) -- this only needs to be for a few seconds.
2. Press the Power button on the remote to put the DX5 II into standby mode
3. Press the Power button on the remote to take the DX5 II out of standby mode
4. Wait about 10 seconds, and a hiss will occur in the Right channel

This issue requires PEQ Config to be enabled, and the Sample rate for the devices need to be set to 176.4kHz or 192kHz (the maximum allowable for the PEQ feature to be used). No hiss when set to 44.1 - 96kHz. I can rule out the D10s because the issue occurred even with the SMSL PO100 Pro -- that means any USB DDC can be used to test. Video attached below for the curious:

DX5II_HISS_3.MOV

drive.google.com

Edit 3: I also discovered that no USB connection is required between the Mac and DX5 II for the issue to occur, which probably debunks my theory about it searching for a USB connection that is no longer available. So, I was mistaken.

 

[Sokel]

This issue requires PEQ Config to be enabled, and the Sample rate for the devices need to be set to 176.4kHz or 192kHz (the maximum allowable for the PEQ feature to be used). No hiss when set to 44.1 - 96kHz.

That's a great tell about quantization noise as described, tested and mentioned many times at this thread.
DSP, higher sample rate, very limited horsepower, it's the perfect storm to create 30dB-40dB noise rise, easily.

 

[ziggurcat]

That's a great tell about quantization noise as described, tested and mentioned many times at this thread.
DSP, higher sample rate, very limited horsepower, it's the perfect storm to create 30dB-40dB noise rise, easily.

What would the reason be for it to not occur if only the USB input is being used?

 

[Sokel]

What would the reason be for it to not occur if only the USB input is being used?

I have posted the relative white paper early on at post #89.
It's kind of a norm with weak implementations.

You can also dive deeper to it, here:

DSP Measurements and Rising Noise Floor

In several threads related to DSP platforms I've seen requests for measurements with filters engaged. I thought it unlikely that implementing filters in a DSP would have measurable effect on noise / distortion other than the obvious change in the fundamental, however @Sokel recently mentioned...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping is not the only one that suffers as you will see, even if others have decades of experience.
And of course there's the ones who do it right up to 768kHz, like RME.

 

[sm5]

Damn that sucks. Are you going to get it replaced? I assume it’s under warranty.
I kind of bought this knowing it’s a bit of a gamble, but still sucks to see it play out like that.

I was luckily able to return it, minus the restocking fee. I could have done a warranty replacement, but I didn't want to risk having the replacement die too. (I had an original L30 that needed to be replaced also) - The DX5 (1) original version I had was fine though for the time I owned it.

I'll probably wait 6 months to a year before purchasing anything similar again, mostly to make sure any manufacturing/software issues are mostly ironed out unlike buying it the second it's announced.

 

[ziggurcat]

Found another potential issue.

If someone can test SPDIF mode 2, I have noticed that every so often when I listening to music, there's a very abrupt stutter every 5 or so minutes. No stutter with SPDIF mode 1.

Because of how I have to set things up in my system, I am using the OPT input on the DX5 II. I will test with USB input, but wanted to put this out there in case anyone else using the OPT or COAX inputs have experienced this with SPDIF mode 2.

 

[staticV3]

Found another potential issue.

If someone can test SPDIF mode 2, I have noticed that every so often when I listening to music, there's a very abrupt stutter every 5 or so minutes. No stutter with SPDIF mode 1.

Because of how I have to set things up in my system, I am using the OPT input on the DX5 II. I will test with USB input, but wanted to put this out there in case anyone else using the OPT or COAX inputs have experienced this with SPDIF mode 2.

That's a feature, not a bug.

Mode 2 reduces jitter at the DAC's analog output, but in return the DAC is more likely to lose signal lock with a poor quality SPDIF source which results in stutter.

Since jitter is a non-issue and is excellent even in Mode 1, there's no reason not to keep it in that mode.

 

[ziggurcat]

That's a feature, not a bug.

Mode 2 reduces jitter at the DAC's analog output, but in return the DAC is more likely to lose signal lock with a poor quality SPDIF source which results in stutter.

Since jitter is a non-issue and is excellent even in Mode 1, there's no reason not to keep it in that mode.

You're absolutely right, I have no reason to not have it on mode 1, which is what I have been using since they introduced the feature in the settings. My idiot brain just forgot that I had switched it to test something yesterday afternoon.

My natural tendency is to consider something like as a bug. When I hadn't experienced a stutter like that at all up until last night, my brain immediately went to "there's a problem" mode, not realizing that I hadn't switched it back, but also not considering that mode 2 would cause a stutter.

 

[Roland68]

You're absolutely right, I have no reason to not have it on mode 1, which is what I have been using since they introduced the feature in the settings. My idiot brain just forgot that I had switched it to test something yesterday afternoon.

My natural tendency is to consider something like as a bug. When I hadn't experienced a stutter like that at all up until last night, my brain immediately went to "there's a problem" mode, not realizing that I hadn't switched it back, but also not considering that mode 2 would cause a stutter.

What's worse is that people immediately declare it a bug and warn others about a problem with the device without even asking first or reading the manual.
These results then appear when someone searches for the device and bugs on Google, or they become part of the information that AI analyzes.