Topping DX5 Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[jkim]

What do you mean by 'Not at all'? You used two uncommon situations as counterexamples to my point ('First' and 'Second' below), but neither is reflected in the charts you re-posted. If you want to prove your point, at least come up with some data, if it is not already available somewhere on the internet.

Please let's not focus on "winning" this debate---that is not my main reason for posting this content. I am less interested in small, logical missteps in posts like @staticV3's written in casual online forum style (yours and mine, too, to some degree, always) which is completely fine. We are not writing a journal manuscript here. I am more interested in the larger context in which people like @ICIETDIYEUR misinterpret measurements data.

Now going back to the discussion, the point of my preceding post is exactly that we do NOT even need uncommon or extreme situations to resolve the focal issue of the current discussion, i.e., why we can make a statement meaning 'Restrict BW to human hearing and the slight rise above a certain high frequency will be flattened.'

Why would I relax my criticism? Even you admit that '5 kHz' is inaccurate and 'completely gone' is hyperbole. Those essentially make the claim false, simple as that.
Why are you arguing with me? The chart you re-posted and your analysis came to the same conclusion as I did. Should I thank you for agreeing with me? No, you are welcome.

See above. Please calm down.

Every time a new product came out, a seemingly thorough but same-o-same-o suite of measurement were done and then the conclusion was made that the distortion is vanishingly low and the sound this product produces should be indistinguishable from another. Yet some people tell you they sound different.

The THD is just a number, more importantly is what it reflects. To understand that, you would need more than a computer with an internet connection, listen to a lot of different products, and better yet, have an APX connected to your computer.

In most of the cases in which people report audible differences from electronics these days, the problem is usually not that they can hear differences, but that a well-controlled condition is not used. With everything else controlled (most often voltage-measured volume matching but there can be other confounders), the THD of these electronics should not be the cause of audible differences. It simply does not make sense based on what we know---THD of these devices is so low as to be masked by much, much greater transducer THD. And if there is indeed an audible difference caused by the devices, we can consider other aspects.

 

[simmconn]

Please let's not focus on "winning" this debate---that is not my main reason for posting this content. I am less interested in small, logical missteps in posts like @staticV3's written in casual online forum style (yours and mine, too, to some degree, always) which is completely fine. We are not writing a journal manuscript here. I am more interested in the larger context in which people like @ICIETDIYEUR misinterpret measurements data.

Now going back to the discussion, the point of my preceding post is exactly that we do NOT even need uncommon or extreme situations to resolve the focal issue of the current discussion, i.e., why we can make a statement meaning 'Restrict BW to human hearing and the slight rise above a certain high frequency will be flattened.'

I didn't even remotely imply that I disagree. It's a common knowledge. If you bothered to check my past posts, you wouldn't need to treat me as some one who needs an introduction course on audio measurement.

The question is where the 'certain high frequency' begins. It's a simple elementary school math problem (20k/3=5k?, 20k/2=5k?), and yet someone who dared to accuse people for having an 'irrational agenda' couldn't get right. That's the irony here.

You want to focus on the 'bigger picture' and dismiss the above mistake as 'small, logical missteps', you are entitled to your opinion. Could you not tell me what I should focus on, especially given that I don't disagree with your 'bigger picture'? Apparently we have different focus on the discussion but essentially agreed with each other on the following facts:

1) Restricting BW to human hearing and the slight rise above a certain high frequency will be flattened.
2) @staticV3 made a mistake in his statement regarding what the 'certain high frequency' entails.

I think we can stop the discussion here.

I don't care how @ICIETDIYEUR may have misinterpret measurement data in the past. @staticV3 's post is the one email I received from ASR in a long time. The system certainly knows how to pick up a fight, lol.

 

[jkim]

I didn't even remotely imply that I disagree. It's a common knowledge. If you bothered to check my past posts, you wouldn't need to treat me as some one who needs an introduction course on audio measurement.

No worries, I figured. The reason why I continued the discussion was because readers tend to pay attention only to the debated point and easily miss the more important, meaningful 'agreed' part, if we do not say it explicitly. But after a certain point, no one would want to read our discussion, lol.

The question is where the 'certain high frequency' begins. It's a simple elementary school math problem (20k/3=5k?, 20k/2=5k?), and yet someone who dared to accuse people for having an 'irrational agenda' couldn't get right. That's the irony here.

At least we can figure out that what he meant by an 'irrational agenda' was not about the precise '5kHz' part. The issue @ICIETDIYEUR raised was not that specific point we debated. Again, I am not defending him, but according to what he posted a while ago:

These (drops) are typically caused by harmonics that from one fundamental frequency to the next step up, suddenly fall outside of the measurement bandwidth, leading to sudden drops in THD.

he seems to understand things behind the measurements of this type. We all make mistakes in quick verbal statements. Even I, with PhD training in a quantitative science field, sometimes make not entirely accurate comments when communicating math/quantitative topics with people with no rigorous training.

You want to focus on the 'bigger picture' and dismiss the above mistake as 'small, logical missteps', you are entitled to your opinion. Could you not tell me what I should focus on, especially given that I don't disagree with your 'bigger picture'? Apparently we have different focus on the discussion but essentially agreed with each other on the following facts:

1) Restricting BW to human hearing and the slight rise above a certain high frequency will be flattened.
2) @staticV3 made a mistake in his statement regarding what the 'certain high frequency' entails.

I think we can stop the discussion here.

I don't care how @ICIETDIYEUR may have misinterpret measurement data in the past. @staticV3 's post is the one email I received from ASR in a long time. The system certainly knows how to pick up a fight, lol.

Sounds great. That is what I wanted to convey, with which I believed you'd have no problem. But again, if we don't say it explicitly some people will mistake the important part of the topic being discussed---sorry about my obsession with 'readers' as I always care much about readers in my writing. By the way, do you own a DX5? If so, how is your experience (not just of its audio performance)?

 

[simmconn]

It’s great to end the argument in a win-win situation. I have a DX5, liked the sound and functionality in general, but not so much the workmanship (the LCD display was tilted from the factory). As I listen more and more using electrostatics, the headphone output becomes underused and the DX5 is no longer in active duty.

 

[Kretinburger]

Wow.ASR is good for a belly laugh if nothing else.

 

[JSmith]

Wow.ASR is good for a belly laugh if nothing else.

JSmith

 

[czAudiophile]

Interestly enough. I've moved from this DAC to Luxsin x9, and from Ananda to Aria.
And man what a change. I was not expecting such huge change in sound quality.
Before that I finaly managed to set up Peq control app from my laptop.

 

[Jimster480]

Interestly enough. I've moved from this DAC to Luxsin x9, and from Ananda to Aria.
And man what a change. I was not expecting such huge change in sound quality.
Before that I finaly managed to set up Peq control app from my laptop.

Huge change in what regard?