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Topping DX5 II
- Thread starter Matias
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I get "HP DC Abnormal" at around:
1:09, 1:19, 1:25, 1:30, 1:40, 1:47, 2:34, 2:45, 2:52, 2:58, 3:09, 3:15
It never happened when listening through Spotify desktop with max Spotify and Windows volume, even with Spotify EQ with +12 dB. But playing the Spotify MP3 and Tidal FLAC files in Audacity it happened at all those points. Also in Tidal with and without exclusive mode.
I'm not an audio engineer but it doesn't seem to happen just because there's clipping since it plays fine through 01:05 to 1:09 even with measured clipping as shown in the Spotify file. But around 1:09 the warning pops up and the sound cuts out. I don't know if this is intended or not as I don't see any DC offset and (I don't think) the clipping alone is dangerous. Maybe someone else knows?
Is it possible to disable DC offset protection?
So here is the thing:
DC offset is pernicious, as first thing many outboard gear used in realizing songs or mixing and mastering end up developing DC offset with time. But surely someone in the process spots it and filters it out and/or fixes gear, right? Well... Not always unfortunately (rarely tbh).
Then the conversation moves to: but what about digital tools? They shouldn't suffer from it, right? Wrong. For 2 reasons (and a half):
- Emulations of analog gear sometimes (more often than you'd think) emulate also DC offset, why? I've no idea, but mind you we live in a world where Waves (one of the most famous plugin manufacturers) added an "analog" button to its plugins that would just add white noise to the signal, and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if some plugin manufacturers don't even know what DC offset is.
- Then there's aliasing, most plugins that add harmonics and have non-linear processing (there's a whole lot) suffer from aliasing to this day (even if with more computing power we might just brute force our way out of it), there's some good manufacturers which implemented measures to solve it, but most simply don't, especially tools that come stock with DAWs etc. or they put a lazy oversampler and call it a day (often still doesn't solve the issue or makes it worse at times). Now, why aliasing and DC offset? Well in case of more substantial aliasing distortion, energy accumulates at the bottom of the spectrum (acting as de-facto standing wave like DC).
- Finally there's loudness and overcompression: ever since compressors were invented, we always raced at who is louder, this never stopped and goes on ever since the 60s, and believe me even when we think we're in front of physical limits, it will probably never stop, even if perhaps we're starting to hit a plateau. Recently this push to the edge started to come with more downsides, in this case this also isn't DC, but, since there's no dynamics and many non-experts simply blast up bass frequencies, you have frequencies at the zero point (or close to zero point) that also act as (almost) static standing wave.
What it boils down to and what listeners can do? The fact of the matter is that unfortunately there's less and less professionals in real terms, you have kids that sell mix and mastering for few bucks in their basements to other kids that mess around with FL Studio, they have no clue of what aliasing is, what DC Offset is, or most of the actual audio engineering side of things, and even seasoned professionals, even very famous and high ticket ones use the lazy argument of "well if it sounds good it sounds good" to justify the fact that also they don't know a ding of the matter. I mean recently you have education platforms promoting and spreading famous engineers saying that DAWs and digital faders in DAWs sound different (they absolutely don't and it's mathematically proven, they null). The times of audio engineers dressing like doctors in pristine studios is long gone.
But what should you listener do? Well... I think nothing, and mind you stuff with DC offset or mastered at positive LUFS values etc. will literally fry your equipment, so to say you should just take it is quite a statement. What can equipment manufactures do instead? Well there's DC Offset protection, but this opens the door to how do they calculate actual DC or not and what do they do as protection? If the idea is to shut music down when they detect prolonged sub bass frequencies over a given threshold, then good luck in a few years time frame when the problem will be ubiquitous in new music. Alternatively they can activate a DC Offset filter when they detect such, which will instead result in this filter being active most of the time and since no filter is perfect and invisible it will result in either phase shift in bass frequencies or transient smearing (in case of linear phase).
So my advice is: don't bother with it, leave the world as it is, yes it's technically wrong, just like the aliasing artifacts present in award winning and record breaking songs is wrong, try to not get yourself deaf and as consequence your equipment will also be able to withstand whatever defects baked into the recordings without issues.
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Bought this for sub use and it's great.
I'm comparing it to the RME ADI-2 PRO FS.
The RME has a fuller midrange.
In other words, more musical.
The highs are more visible on the DX5II, and the bass line looks better.
It's hard to believe it's 1/4 the price.
I'm going to try more detailed features such as PEQ.
I'm comparing it to the RME ADI-2 PRO FS.
The RME has a fuller midrange.
In other words, more musical.
The highs are more visible on the DX5II, and the bass line looks better.
It's hard to believe it's 1/4 the price.
I'm going to try more detailed features such as PEQ.
AtticReclus3
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In reality it will never match the OG, but if it gets close to a degree.. well good enough for me.
I compared it to the DX1 I had been using as a sub.
Clearly, a veil has been lifted.
And when I connected it to a balanced connection, another layer of veil was removed.
This is a bit impressive.
I don't have ADI-2 PRO balanced connection cables.
I would like to compare the balanced connection between ADI-2 and DX5II.
I use SENNHEISER HD620S and OLLO AUDIO X1 headphones.
Clearly, a veil has been lifted.
And when I connected it to a balanced connection, another layer of veil was removed.
This is a bit impressive.
I don't have ADI-2 PRO balanced connection cables.
I would like to compare the balanced connection between ADI-2 and DX5II.
I use SENNHEISER HD620S and OLLO AUDIO X1 headphones.
That’s because the RME has harmonic distortion (odd harmonics to be precise) which makes it sound “fuller” changing also perception in the rest of the auditory range (you can find the measurements on the site). Technically speaking what you hear on the Topping is more faithful to the source, but if you like a more colored sound for listening then dac/amps with different blends of harmonic distortion like the chord ones can be your friends rather than more analytical ones.
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Bow_Wazoo
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Sokel
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It what???
Where did you see that?
All the measurements I have seen of ADI-2 pro have their THD+N at about -108dB at this freq range, a little worst than the ADI-2 DAC.
Edit:example:
MEASUREMENTS: RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition as DAC.
A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.
archimago.blogspot.com
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Any evidence for this?
Not even going to bother with the rest of your statements.
It what???
Where did you see that?
All the measurements I have seen of ADI-2 pro have their THD+N at about -108dB at this freq range, a little worst than the ADI-2 DAC.
Edit:example:
View attachment 465532
MEASUREMENTS: RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition as DAC.
A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.
This is comparison review and measurements of RME ADI-2 Pro against the RME ADI-2 DAC. The former has both analog to digital conversion in addition to digital to analog. I purchased that combo unit because I hope to make use of its ADC for measurements in the future. According to RME, ADI-2 DAC has some additional refinements in design which they say are not measurable. Well, I hope to measure them. 
I purchased the RME ADI-2 Pro by contacting RME in Germany/US and received kind accommodation pricing. With the retail price of USD $1,999, even with my discount, it is still pretty...
I purchased the RME ADI-2 Pro by contacting RME in Germany/US and received kind accommodation pricing. With the retail price of USD $1,999, even with my discount, it is still pretty...
Sokel
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Did you see the level or just read the text?This is comparison review and measurements of RME ADI-2 Pro against the RME ADI-2 DAC. The former has both analog to digital conversion in addition to digital to analog. I purchased that combo unit because I hope to make use of its ADC for measurements in the future. According to RME, ADI-2 DAC has some additional refinements in design which they say are not measurable. Well, I hope to measure them.
I purchased the RME ADI-2 Pro by contacting RME in Germany/US and received kind accommodation pricing. With the retail price of USD $1,999, even with my discount, it is still pretty...
orange line is mine:
The "more harmonic distortion" comment here, refers to the -122dB and -130dB spikes at H3 and H5 and is purely technical about the comparison.
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Yes, but that's the measurement for a simple 1 kHz test tone wave, now throw a song on it and add not only 1 kHz but all the rest of the spectrum and see what happens, that -120 shoots up, we're not talking louder than the main tones of course, but they compound and the sound starts to push forward. It becomes audible to an experience listener. Don't think like is some atrocious thing, simply it gives a slight color. Most of expensive mic preamps have as main selling point the blend of harmonic distortion they add, which get used on instrument/genre/preference basis. That's also a (noisier) way to boost signal level.
Personally I still think listeners should leave coloration to the music creation side and aim at highest fidelity possible, but at the end of the day the audiophile world is famous for expensive tubes and all sorts of creative ways to add harmonic distortion and each person likes a given kind of saturation and choose equipment based on that tone. The goal for example of good mix and mastering engineers is among other things to make a song translate as good as possible in any device and situation.
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Bow_Wazoo
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@Dandelion
You just got lost.
This is the wrong community for such untruths.
Both devices are simply transparent.
There's nothing more to say.
You just got lost.
This is the wrong community for such untruths.
Both devices are simply transparent.
There's nothing more to say.
After a few hours of listening to music with the DX5 II, I’m really impressed with this $300 unit.
My issue with the HP DC abnormality is gone after limiting Tidal to a maximum volume of 60%.
Thanks for your input!
But I have another question:
When switching between 44.1 kHz and 96 kHz in exclusive mode (Tidal), I can hear a slight crackling sound.
Is this normal, or can I optimize it in Windows 11 or with USB Config on my Motherboard?
My issue with the HP DC abnormality is gone after limiting Tidal to a maximum volume of 60%.
Thanks for your input!
But I have another question:
When switching between 44.1 kHz and 96 kHz in exclusive mode (Tidal), I can hear a slight crackling sound.
Is this normal, or can I optimize it in Windows 11 or with USB Config on my Motherboard?
Multitone is a better measurement but still static and limited in resolution. It's kind of hard to provide such measurement (harmonic creation) in a scientific manner, because the alternative would be to throw either a random song or something like pink noise and then null the output with the source and see what's left, but the result wouldn't be able to show much and there's million reasons that can affect a null, you would still see what's left in the null test, but there's not much you can infer or take away from it other than "it null down to X level and here's the spectrum response of the null"Something like a multitone perhaps?
View attachment 465539
View attachment 465540
(link)
Edit: the last chart is with EQ enabled, just because it can stay unaffected, unlike the D50 III of the comparison.
Sokel
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It's not hard at all to measure with music too, I have, multiple times.
Instead of posting endless charts, have a look at the FSAF method.
It can be used to measure distortion with any signal, including music.
I'll let you do your homework and search here, we have posted lots of examples.
(hint: no difference than a nice multitone)
Can't help you with the crackling since I don't own windows machines and the only reminiscence I have is ASIO drivers in my old computer easily struggling with buffer size even at low sample rates, which is completely useless information for your case, but the fact that reducing source volume doesn't trigger DC abnormality alert it means their protection is based on level of sub-frequencies, I guess you can check with a tone generator at different levels and spot the triggering point. Could be just when overshooting or at a given db FS level, conversions of codecs often cause overshooting (or even just limiting not done in True Peak in lossless files), that test would allow you to setup your applications output maximizing source signal without having to push more your amplifier.
If you can't measure it, how do you know it's actually there?
Even if (in the very unlikely circumstance) you could hear a difference in a well controlled blind test. How do you know it's the effect your are describing above?
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