Topping DX5 II

[Scoobz1]

Despite what was being said earlier I beleive this thing does not run hot - it was measured on a top of an amp with no reference to the ambient temperature !

 

[respice finem]

Let’s hope Topping this time will be opting for vertical(!) fins or the crowd will go nuts again

Or some absolute "purist" might say, dust is going to get into the unit through vents (even if it doesn't really matter). The numerous choices have made us all picky.

 

[malaire]

That is really bad. Because you get significant level of DC at headphone out, while the correct behavior is DC protection should be triggered and your headphone output would be disabled. If you use balanced connection that is 3.4V DC. I don’t know which part of the music he/she uses. Though it has DC from the beginning, the level significantly increases after 1:00 in that song. If only the beginning part is tested, the DC level would go higher into the middle of the song.

I tested the whole song. There were several peaks above 1.2 VDC earlier in the song and that largest 1.7 VDC peak was around 2:30 I think.

 

[Gibsonian]

Despite what was being said earlier I beleive this thing does not run hot - it was measured on a top of an amp with no reference to the ambient temperature !

Yes, hot here has no context, just a random observation with zero data and no definition of what is hot.

 

[robbiekhan]

Hello.

I have been following this discussion since the beginning. I received mine yesterday. One thing I noticed is that it gets very hot while running. Is the same thing happening to others who own this device.

View attachment 460835

It does run hot, it has no vents at all so I fully expected iit to run hot.

Also this has trouble driving the Susvara. I was at -10dB in high gain and the loudness was just about OK but not what I would call loud, it was lower in volume than was I would prefer when properly "enjoying" music. by comparison in low gain on my Arya/HE1000se I set the dial at -28dB for what I would could properly loud listening.

I know the Susvara has a different sensitivity, but even still, you'd expect the 4500mW x2 to be more than capable of driving something like the Susvara. Someone on reddit commented saying their Burson HP amp got the Susvara almost too loud for comfort, that is what I was expecting from the power specs of the DX5 II.

My exact same observations about the sound stay true with the Susvara here as well, whereby it felt like the upper mids were being held back digitally, "S" and "T" sounded like "SSh" and "Tsch" in vocals in many songs. I then connected the Susvara to an Audio Analogue AADAC, and whilst even that tank was unable to get good loudness out of the Susvara, the musicality was exactly what I was expecting, nones of the upper mids of vocals had any such issues.

So yes I still stand by my original comments that the DX5 II does not sound as musical as it should, regardless of what some say about all DACs being transparent. I have literally used flagship headphones on this now against other HP amps and this doesn't sound as I would expect.

Having now been through this process, I now want to see a proper teardown and measurement of its outputs so it is more clear why it sounds the way it does, Topping's new default-tuning?

My HE1000se is sounding more enjoyable through the Luxsin X9 right out of the box by comparison.

 

[Scoobz1]

It does run hot, it has no vents at all so I fully expected iit to run hot.

Also this has trouble driving the Susvara. I was at -10dB in high gain and the loudness was just about OK but not what I would call loud, it was lower in volume than was I would prefer when properly "enjoying" music. by comparison in low gain on my Arya/HE1000se I set the dial at -28dB for what I would could properly loud listening.

I know the Susvara has a different sensitivity, but even still, you'd expect the 4500mW x2 to be more than capable of driving something like the Susvara. Someone on reddit commented saying their Burson HP amp got the Susvara almost too loud for comfort, that is what I was expecting from the power specs of the DX5 II.

My exact same observations about the sound stay true with the Susvara here as well, whereby it felt like the upper mids were being held back digitally, "S" and "T" sounded like "SSh" and "Tsch" in vocals in many songs. I then connected the Susvara to an Audio Analogue AADAC, and whilst even that tank was unable to get good loudness out of the Susvara, the musicality was exactly what I was expecting, nones of the upper mids of vocals had any such issues.

So yes I still stand by my original comments that the DX5 II does not sound as musical as it should, regardless of what some say about all DACs being transparent. I have literally used flagship headphones on this now against other HP amps and this doesn't sound as I would expect.

Having now been through this process, I now want to see a proper teardown and measurement of its outputs so it is more clear why it sounds the way it does, Topping's new default-tuning?

My HE1000se is sounding more enjoyable through the Luxsin X9 right out of the box by comparison.

Hot as in what temperature and hotter than what ! Doesn't seem to be anything remarkable to me. Sorry just seen a similar comment / reply above

 

[robbiekhan]

Recently the hottest I measured was 44 degrees centigrade with a thermal camera in one hotspot after several hours of use. It's not the hottest amp I have seen, 48 degrees is what my old Aiyima A80 ran at. Ambient room temp is 25 degrees generally here, maybe up to 30 if the mood calls for it.

 

[somebodyelse]

I tested the whole song. There were several peaks above 1.2 VDC earlier in the song and that largest 1.7 VDC peak was around 2:30 I think.

How much DC is there relative to full scale?

 

[Gibsonian]

Recently the hottest I measured was 44 degrees centigrade with a thermal camera in one hotspot after several hours of use. It's not the hottest amp I have seen, 48 degrees is what my old Aiyima A80 ran at. Ambient room temp is 25 degrees generally here, maybe up to 30 if the mood calls for it.

Data, nice. 44deg C is 111 F. Not hot, not abnormal

 

[JIW]

It does run hot, it has no vents at all so I fully expected iit to run hot.

Also this has trouble driving the Susvara. I was at -10dB in high gain and the loudness was just about OK but not what I would call loud, it was lower in volume than was I would prefer when properly "enjoying" music. by comparison in low gain on my Arya/HE1000se I set the dial at -28dB for what I would could properly loud listening.

I know the Susvara has a different sensitivity, but even still, you'd expect the 4500mW x2 to be more than capable of driving something like the Susvara. Someone on reddit commented saying their Burson HP amp got the Susvara almost too loud for comfort, that is what I was expecting from the power specs of the DX5 II.

My exact same observations about the sound stay true with the Susvara here as well, whereby it felt like the upper mids were being held back digitally, "S" and "T" sounded like "SSh" and "Tsch" in vocals in many songs. I then connected the Susvara to an Audio Analogue AADAC, and whilst even that tank was unable to get good loudness out of the Susvara, the musicality was exactly what I was expecting, nones of the upper mids of vocals had any such issues.

So yes I still stand by my original comments that the DX5 II does not sound as musical as it should, regardless of what some say about all DACs being transparent. I have literally used flagship headphones on this now against other HP amps and this doesn't sound as I would expect.

Having now been through this process, I now want to see a proper teardown and measurement of its outputs so it is more clear why it sounds the way it does, Topping's new default-tuning?

My HE1000se is sounding more enjoyable through the Luxsin X9 right out of the box by comparison.

The maximum power spec of 4300 mW at 64 Ohm corresponds to 10*log10(4.300*64) = 24.4 dBV. This is only 0.3 dB below the maximum voltage spec of 24.7 dBV and can thus only be reached at 0 dB volume.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

It does run hot, it has no vents at all so I fully expected iit to run hot.

Also this has trouble driving the Susvara. I was at -10dB in high gain and the loudness was just about OK but not what I would call loud, it was lower in volume than was I would prefer when properly "enjoying" music. by comparison in low gain on my Arya/HE1000se I set the dial at -28dB for what I would could properly loud listening.

I know the Susvara has a different sensitivity, but even still, you'd expect the 4500mW x2 to be more than capable of driving something like the Susvara. Someone on reddit commented saying their Burson HP amp got the Susvara almost too loud for comfort, that is what I was expecting from the power specs of the DX5 II.

My exact same observations about the sound stay true with the Susvara here as well, whereby it felt like the upper mids were being held back digitally, "S" and "T" sounded like "SSh" and "Tsch" in vocals in many songs. I then connected the Susvara to an Audio Analogue AADAC, and whilst even that tank was unable to get good loudness out of the Susvara, the musicality was exactly what I was expecting, nones of the upper mids of vocals had any such issues.

So yes I still stand by my original comments that the DX5 II does not sound as musical as it should, regardless of what some say about all DACs being transparent. I have literally used flagship headphones on this now against other HP amps and this doesn't sound as I would expect.

Having now been through this process, I now want to see a proper teardown and measurement of its outputs so it is more clear why it sounds the way it does, Topping's new default-tuning?

My HE1000se is sounding more enjoyable through the Luxsin X9 right out of the box by comparison.

Ill say that again gain != power.
Did you hear clipping with Susvara?
If not turn your knob more so you get your desired loudness and enjoy.

If you can't get desired loudness even at 0db and you are not clipping your amp, consider using additional gain in something like APO, as what you are missing is gain not power

 

[malaire]

How much DC is there relative to full scale?

How should I measure full scale? Just max VAC while playing that song?

 

[JIW]

How should I measure full scale? Just max VAC while playing that song?

The volume and gain setting will do. FS in low gain at 0 dB volume is 2.5 V RMS single ended and 5 V RMS balanced for sine waves. In high gain, it is 10 dB or about 3 times higher. Peak is square root of 2, i.e. 1.4142, times higher or half the specified peak to peak voltages.

 

[malaire]

The volume and gain setting will do. FS in low gain at 0 dB volume is 2.5 V RMS single ended and 5 V RMS balanced for sine waves. In high gain, it is 10 dB or about 3 times higher.

I used high gain, max volume, single ended.

 

[JIW]

I used high gain, max volume, single ended.

That is 12.1 V peak corresponding to 8.56 V RMS for a sine.

 

[robbiekhan]

If not turn your knob more so you get your desired loudness and enjoy.

Whilst there was no noticeable distortion, the sound wasn't comfortable, even though the loudness was below what I am used to, like I mentioned in the above, the upper mids and brightness on those Ts and Ss are grating to listen to for periods of time through this DX on all of the planars I have now tried on it, as well as the HD800s, a headphone famous for being bright I'll admit.

I am one of those people who did try out Peace/APO back when I first got planar headphones as the planar upper end peak was new to me, I got OK results but after days and days of fiddling around I binned it all off and got better amps/headphones as the months went on and I looked to find what sounded better out of the box instead and haven't looked back (until I got the DX5 II on a whim of curiosity above all else).

 

[ziggurcat]

Ill say that again gain != power.
Did you hear clipping with Susvara?
If not turn your knob more so you get your desired loudness and enjoy.

If you can't get desired loudness even at 0db and you are not clipping your amp, consider using additional gain in something like APO, as what you are missing is gain not power

I would maybe suggest they also get a hearing test if -10dB at high gain is "just about OK." Setting my D50 II to preamp mode, and my L50 to High gain (then turning the volume knob on the L50 to max), once it gets around -45 to -40dB on the D50 III, it is very loud.

 

[robbiekhan]

I would maybe suggest they also get a hearing test if -10dB at high gain is "just about OK." Setting my D50 II to preamp mode, and my L50 to High gain (then turning the volume knob on the L50 to max), once it gets around -45 to -40dB on the D50 III, it is very loud.

I suggest reading again. The Susvara is what I specifically reference to just being "OK" at -10dB for loudness, they do NOT get loud, like at all with the DX5 II, they were even quieter with the AADAC, a £4500 DAC/amp. For comparison the HE1000se/Arya etc are way too loud for long listening comfort on high gain at -28dB on the dial. Your comment infers that all headphones are the same loudness at the same volume setting on the amp, which is not true. I was specific in my wording and referencing the Susvara's driving needs and low loudness with this amp, even at high volume values.

Edit* And because you mentioned, hearing test results from December when I went in for a checkup at age 41...

 

[Sokel]

That is 12.1 V peak corresponding to 8.56 V RMS for a sine.

That's for full sine. With music is usually at -30dBFS to -12dBFS for nice recordings.
What we generally see is about 100mV to 300mV (all spectrum combined) tops for nice ones at line level although I have seen as much as 700mV for peaks or hot recordings.

The one we're talking about shows DC near 0dBFS (!) at one channel at the chart:

 

[oleg87]

Topping’s specs suggest that at max balanced output, you’d get around 115dB SPL with a full scale signal with a Susvara. Subtracting 10 is still (at least to me) very unpleasantly loud with all but the quitest content. Something seems very screwy here.