Topping DX5 II

[ziggurcat]

I'm going to return mine to their official store in Amazon.
Amazon only allows leaving 500 characters message to the seller, and I have 7 bugs (3 of them I consider serious) to report.
Amazon needs to do better.

Sorry, I edited my previous post as you were responding -- can you explain in layman's terms what any of that means? What do you mean by "track previously known for having high DC"?

What specific bugs have you encountered? And are you going to bother reporting them to Topping?

 

[JIW]

I'm going to return mine to their official store in Amazon.
Amazon only allows leaving 500 characters message to the seller, and I have 7 bugs (3 of them I consider serious) to report.
Amazon needs to do better.

Can you put them here instead?

 

[audiofun]

Sorry, I edited my previous post as you were responding -- can you explain in layman's terms what any of that means? What do you mean by "track previously known for having high DC"?

What specific bugs have you encountered? And are you going to bother reporting them to Topping?

DC is known to damage your headphones and speakers. Music, if masters well, usually has AC contents only. But some poorly mastered music tracks have DC, and a few of them have high level DC.
ASR user reported such music content in the Topping A30 Pro thread and it turned out previous Topping devices did pretty well guarding against such poorly mastered music.
But DX5 had not properly implemented the feature.
From early teardown photo (on this Korean site, posted by some user in this thread on page 11) I can see the DC protection circuit on the top right of the 4 pin XLR. So topping did implemented the feature, but it's not working at all.

 

[ziggurcat]

DC is known to damage your headphones and speakers. Music, if masters well, usually has AC contents only. But some poorly mastered music tracks have DC, and a few of them have high level DC.
ASR user reported such music content in the Topping A30 Pro thread and it turned out previous Topping devices did pretty well guarding against such poorly mastered music.
But DX5 had not properly implemented the feature.
From early teardown photo (on this Korean site, posted by some user in this thread on page 11) I can see the DC protection circuit on the top right of the 4 pin XLR. So topping did implemented the feature, but it's not working at all.

OK, but what are the conditions for this to happen? Are these conditions outside of what most people would consider "normal" or... ? I'm not dismissing the issue, but there are some issues that are kind of moot when no one in their right mind would ever do that with their gear? What is the likelihood of someone encountering this when the HPA is set to Low gain, and your volume dial doesn't go beyond the 10 o'clock position (if 7 o'clock is the absolute minimum volume level)?

And again... have you reported any of this to Topping? Because none of it is going to get fixed if you keep it to yourself. What other bugs have you encountered?

 

[audiofun]

OK, but what are the conditions for this to happen? Are these conditions outside of what most people would consider "normal" or... ? I'm not dismissing the issue, but there are some issues that are kind of moot when no one in their right mind would ever do that with their gear? What is the likelihood of someone encountering this when the HPA is set to Low gain, and your volume dial doesn't go beyond the 10 o'clock position (if 7 o'clock is the absolute minimum volume level)?

And again... have you reported any of this to Topping? Because none of it is going to get fixed if you keep it to yourself. What other bugs have you encountered?

if you listen to the track and volume is 10 o’clock on toppings other devices, the protection WILL kick in. Even in low gain it’s high enough to damage sensitive IEMs.

I already posted various bugs in this thread (DC, EQ, volume memory, relay clicking continuously, just to name a few). I believe their people are closely watching this thread. I believe a few of the bugs are serious enough for me to return it. I also mentioned I will try contacting them by leaving a return feedback.

Look, the bottom line is, I am not obliged to be a beta tester for topping using my own money. Why are you keep telling me what I should do? Topping does not offer me a job.

 

[JOCoin]

I've emailed Topping to ask about DC protection on the outputs. Will post a response if I get one. If this is true, I'm returning mine while I'm still within the window through Amazon. Even with budget cans this would be enough for me to swear off Topping, as this has been a known issue for so long on other devices.

 

[JIW]

if you listen to the track and volume is 10 o’clock on toppings other devices, the protection WILL kick in. Even in low gain it’s high enough to damage sensitive IEMs.

I already posted various bugs in this thread (DC, EQ, volume memory, relay clicking continuously, just to name a few). I believe their people are closely watching this thread. I believe a few of the bugs are serious enough for me to return it. I also mentioned I will try contacting them by leaving a return feedback.

Look, the bottom line is, I am not obliged to be a beta tester for topping using my own money. Why are you keep telling me what I should do? Topping does not offer me a job.

The DC issue you point out makes me consider returning mine as well. All the software issues that can be fixed with future firmware I can probably live with for now but the hardware issues I don't want to deal with indefinitely.

 

[Bleib]

Topping store replied shortly about bugs

"If you order from our topping official store, the delivery time will be faster (there will be some stock before August), but the stock quantity is also limited.

We are fixing some bugs, and we are also updating the new firmware to solve the problem of PEQ (it should be updated in 5-10 days)"

When I wrote them an email I had not yet read about DC issues..

 

[audiofun]

When I wrote them an email I had not yet read about DC issues..

I actually concern more about volume memory bug than DC. I don’t want to check if the volume is 0db or not each time I turn on the device and worry about my hearing is damaged or speakers blow up. I know it’s a software bug that could be fixed (they haven’t in 1.39). But if they release a product with such obvious safety issue, I don’t think they are serious in quality.

 

[ziggurcat]

if you listen to the track and volume is 10 o’clock on toppings other devices, the protection WILL kick in. Even in low gain it’s high enough to damage sensitive IEMs.

I already posted various bugs in this thread (DC, EQ, volume memory, relay clicking continuously, just to name a few). I believe their people are closely watching this thread. I believe a few of the bugs are serious enough for me to return it. I also mentioned I will try contacting them by leaving a return feedback.

Look, the bottom line is, I am not obliged to be a beta tester for topping using my own money. Why are you keep telling me what I should do? Topping does not offer me a job.

10 o'clock is only about a 1/4 - 1/3 of a turn on the volume knob, so it's really not that loud (I should clarify that this is on my L50 HPA, my D50 III is in DAC mode).

Contacting Topping support directly is the only real way they're going to know about these things. Leaving feedback on Amazon isn't going to help to get these problems fixed. Hell, you could even tag @TOPPING here about this stuff -- maybe they'll see it, pass it along to the appropriate department, and maybe even respond.

I'm not telling you to do anything nor should you be a beta tester, but if you've encountered these problems as an end user in the short amount of time you've had with the device, then I think there's some level of responsibility to properly inform them (i.e. not through user feedback/reviews on Amazon). If Bleib's response from Topping is any indication, telling them directly is the most effective thing you can do to help solve the problems. You're also going to have a lot more than 500 characters with an e-mail, so you can go nuts with the level of detail you think is necessary for them to see.

 

[audiofun]

10 o'clock is only about a 1/4 - 1/3 of a turn on the volume knob, so it's really not that loud (I should clarify that this is on my L50 HPA, my D50 III is in DAC mode).

If you watch the video in that thread, the user's A30 Pro's protection kick in with volume knob at 12 o'clock in mid gain (which is +0db, or no gain).
DX5II's HP amp has higher than usual output level (2.5V) than their previous products(2V) in low gain, so it should have gone into protection even earlier.

I'm not telling you to do anything nor should you be a beta tester, but if you've encountered these problems as an end user in the short amount of time you've had with the device, then I think there's some level of responsibility to properly inform them (i.e. not through user feedback/reviews on Amazon).

If the user purchased via their amazon official store and encountered product quality issues, then it's pretty obvious that he/she can return it to them and leave them a feedback, either publicly as user review, or privately as reason to return. I chose the latter.

Customers are NOT responsible for giving lengthy bug report in the first place. It's manufacturer's QA's responsibility.

 

[Toni71]

'DC protection on the outputs. Implented but not working', is this something they need to change in the firmware or hardware? I am thinking of returning my DX 5 II unit.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Customers are NOT responsible for giving lengthy bug report in the first place. It's manufacturer's QA's responsibility.

They are not indeed. You still are free to share this information with your friends at audio science review. This is what I would do.

Just updated firmware to 1.39 and wondering if to keep my unit or send it back. Having a list of known bugs would help to decide.

 

[Deleted member 86328]

For my part, I would gladly have paid 100€ more (even 200€ !) for a device where all the promised qualities actually worked flawlessly. After all, the true price of a product is also the peace of mind it gives you once it’s plugged in.

 

[ziggurcat]

If you watch the video in that thread, the user's A30 Pro's protection kick in with volume knob at 12 o'clock in mid gain (which is +0db, or no gain).
DX5II's HP amp has higher than usual output level (2.5V) than their previous products(2V) in low gain, so it should have gone into protection even earlier.

I did watch the video But I am a bit confused -- is what's shown in the video the same, improper functionality you've experienced with your DX5 II or is that the expected behaviour?

Because I tried that Bloc Party track from your link through my D50 III/L50 stack -- L50 was set to Medium gain, 12 o'clock on the volume knob, headphones plugged into the 6.35mm jack, TRS cables used to connect DAC to L50 -- and nothing happened, not even starting at minimum then raising it, going a bit past 12 o'clock. It just kept playing. Is that because the DC protection you have said the L50 possesses isn't working properly or is it simply not being pushed into protection mode under my test conditions? Would that also mean that the DX5 II's DC protection isn't working properly or is it simply not being pushed into protection mode under certain conditions/configurations (JIW mentioned it does and doesn't relay click depending on the parameters)? My understanding is that you have seen evidence that the necessary circuit is there.

If the user purchased via their amazon official store and encountered product quality issues, then it's pretty obvious that he/she can return it to them and leave them a feedback, either publicly as user review, or privately as reason to return. I chose the latter.

Customers are NOT responsible for giving lengthy bug report in the first place. It's manufacturer's QA's responsibility.

Direct consumer-to-manufacturer feedback is how a less-than-perfect product improves once it's out in the real world. With electronics, that often happens in the form of lengthy bug reports, and a bit of back-and-forth troubleshooting with the manufacturer. I sincerely doubt that Topping's dev team are monitoring the Amazon return feedback, nor do I think that that feedback is being relayed to the dev team. That is why contacting them directly is so much more effective.

If you feel like it, I would encourage you to send me a PM with the list of bugs with the steps to reproduce, and I would happily pass that information along to Topping for you. I have no problem doing that.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

For my part, I would gladly have paid 100€ more (even 200€ !) for a device where all the promised qualities actually worked flawlessly. After all, the true price of a product is also the peace of mind it gives you once it’s plugged in.

It surely is frustrating they did not catch all reported bugs before shipment, but then you never do. I received my unit one week ago via audiophonics in France. It was one of the first units shuipped in Europe. Firmware was 1.32. The only bug I noticed was that I could not select auto-detect for input (pre-) selection.

Updating firmware to 1.39 took less than 10 minutes including disconnecting, moving to pc, downloading and extracting firmware and the update itself. Add two minutes to reconnect.

I am waiting for more information on the dc protection issue though. But I feel Topping fixed îssues as soon as they popped up. This cannot be said of every manufacturer.

Also mind you that even a company like RME still has to fix minor issues not seen at launch of a product. They even (have to) do mechanical changes, like adding venting to the casing of the ADI-2/4. And this is 2.300 Euros more...

 

[audiofun]

But I am a bit confused -- is what's shown in the video the same, improper functionality you've experienced with your DX5 II or is that the expected behaviour?

The video shows expected behavior. I had DX3 Pro+ and both of them will shut off when playing that.

Direct consumer-to-manufacturer feedback is how a less-than-perfect product improves once it's out in the real world.

There is some misconception here: I mentioned several times that I bought from official store on Amazon. That’s topping who’s running that store. If I leave a feedback, it’s topping who’s receiving the feedback directly, not Amazon nor toppings authorized dealers.

 

[profligate]

For my part, I would gladly have paid 100€ more (even 200€ !) for a device where all the promised qualities actually worked flawlessly. After all, the true price of a product is also the peace of mind it gives you once it’s plugged in.

JDS Labs Element IV is twice the price, and without balanced output options and remote, but I hear it’s pretty well regarded, finished and bug free all in aspects, but particularly with regard to PEQ.

I’m personally happy enough to pay half the price for the DX5ii and get something that works perfectly so far for me as long as I temporarily avoid the unfinished software and PEQ aspects. If it had been £100 more expensive (which I was expecting the price to be) maybe I would be more picky. But the looks/finish and sound quality carry this product quite a way.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

I'd really be interested in a list of bugs still present with firmware 1.39. Also I would love to get more information on the dc issue. To my knowledge this has been brought up by one owner and has not been verified yet.

 

[Sokel]

I'd really be interested in a list of bugs still present with firmware 1.39. Also I would love to get more information on the dc issue. To my knowledge this has been brought up by one owner and has not been verified yet.

DC issue has to be defined.
It's one thing that a device outputs DC (that's a major NO ) and it's another thing to be able to play DC content included in some (badly made) tracks.

We're probably talking about the later here, an RME-like optional filter could be handy there.