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Topping DX1 mini desktop DAC & AMP

Bleib

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So it uses analog volume instead of digital like DX3Pro+?
Yes. So I'd get the latter. No remote either with DX1. Also coaxial and toslink inputs on DX3pro+, so possible to use with more devices
 
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Ashimaru

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Does that mean the SNR of the DX1 will be higher than DX3Pro+ at the same normal listening volume?
 

Bleib

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Does that mean the SNR of the DX1 will be higher than DX3Pro+ at the same normal listening volume?
It's a cheaper device so I'd expect it to perform worse, but best wait for a review.
Edit. Wrong, see benches a few posts down..
 
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Ashimaru

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Amir once said in his DX3 Pro+ review that any combo DAC and headphone amp is going to have digital volume control. I was quite surprised to know that the DX1 uses analog volume control.
 

Bleib

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staticV3

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It's a cheaper device so I'd expect it to perform worse, but best wait for a review.
Why wait if we already have reviews for both?

Does that mean the SNR of the DX1 will be higher than DX3Pro+ at the same normal listening volume?
Yes. The DX1 has about 3.75dB less noise than the DX3Pro+ in normal volume. In terms of perceived loudness, that's about 25% less noise.

DX3Pro+ (50mV):
Signal-to-Noise-Ratio.jpg

DX1 (50mV):
1663622332-Dynamic-Range.jpg
 

audiofun

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Why wait if we already have reviews for both?


Yes. The DX1 has about 3.75dB less noise than the DX3Pro+ in normal volume. In terms of perceived loudness, that's about 25% less noise.

DX3Pro+ (50mV):
View attachment 232305

DX1 (50mV):
View attachment 232307
that's because dx1 has almost 10 db lower volume than dx3pro+ , plus it's using analog pot.

you can easily change dx3pro+'s resistor around the differential op amp to make the output lower and get lower noise.
 

Bleib

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Let's hope it doesn't explode, short out a channel, or get hot enough to fry an egg on. If it runs cool, I could use something like this.
It runs on USB power only.. so hot? Unlikely
 

MarcosCh

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that's because dx1 has almost 10 db lower volume than dx3pro+ , plus it's using analog pot.

you can easily change dx3pro+'s resistor around the differential op amp to make the output lower and get lower noise.
Are you sure? Both are SNR at 50mV not absolute noise at max vol.

(I am not an expert, it is a question)
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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Are you sure? Both are SNR at 50mV not absolute noise at max vol.

(I am not an expert, it is a question)
The question was regarding normal listening volume, and 50mV is a pretty reasonable approximation for normal listening volume. At higher volumes the DX3Pro+ almost certainly measures better.
 

audiofun

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Are you sure? Both are SNR at 50mV not absolute noise at max vol.

(I am not an expert, it is a question)
We are talking about different things.

At low gain, Dx1 has lower output level at -2 dbV. Let’s say it has 118db DR. DX3 has 6 dbV output and assume it has 120db DR. You will then find dx1 has lower noise (-120dbV vs -114dbV) and thus 6db better 50mv SNR than dx3, even though dx3’s DR and SNR are better.

In short, having a lower output level will gain the advantage of having lower DAC noise. That is because dac is the main noise contributor, and when you use voltage divider to reduce the DAC voltage into half, you are also reducing the noise to half at the same time. You can mod dx3 and making it output lower level thus having noise as well. It’s not difficult.
 
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MarcosCh

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We are talking about different things.

At low gain, Dx1 has lower output level at -2 dbV. Let’s say it has 118db DR. DX3 has 6 dbV output and assume it has 120db DR. You will then find dx1 has lower noise (-120dbV vs -114dbV) and thus 6db better 50mv SNR than dx3, even though dx3’s DR and SNR are better.

In short, having a lower output level will gain the advantage of having lower DAC noise. That is because dac is the main noise contributor, and when you use voltage divider to reduce the DAC voltage into half, you are also reducing the noise to half at the same time. You can mod dx3 and making it output lower level thus having noise as well. It’s not difficult.
But in fact both have a SNR of ca. 120 (amir and wolf measurements, assuming they can be compared, what i don't know). If you add a resistor to the dx3, you lower the noise, but the signal too, ideally keeping the same 120 SNR? So you will have to mod it to attain roughly the same performance? And then from there down you still have the analog volume of the dx1 vs the digital of the dx3, so noise will always be better with the dx1?
(again, all questions)
 

Billy Budapest

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Why no one answered my question?
What's this feedback about?
Negative feedback reduces noise and distortion and is used in most audio amplifiers to increase performance. In essence, a small amount of the output signal is flipped 180 degrees in phase and then combined with the input signal. It’s a very common technique with the only real drawback being a slight reduction in power.
 

audiofun

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But in fact both have a SNR of ca. 120 (amir and wolf measurements, assuming they can be compared, what i don't know).
i got the numbers from topping official spec.

If you add a resistor to the dx3, you lower the noise, but the signal too, ideally keeping the same 120 SNR?

right.

So you will have to mod it to attain roughly the same performance?

right

And then from there down you still have the analog volume of the dx1 vs the digital of the dx3, so noise will always be better with the dx1?
(again, all questions)

analog volume control can reduce dac volume and noise at the same time. digital volume control can only reduce dac volume only.
That's the theory. In practice, noise doesn't matter if you cannot hear them. if you plug your headphone to a dx3 and hear zero hum, you are all gold.
 

Wunderphones

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I gotta give Topping credit: they definitely are not afraid to cannibalize the sales of their higher-end models. Here they've got a $99 desktop box that runs off bus power and manages to put out distortion and noise levels that most manufacturers aren't matching at any price. And although Topping has models that beat this one handily, almost nobody actually needs that level of performance. For a lot of people, it's tough to justify paying eight times as much for a Topping DX7+ Pro, just to get your SINAD even *more* inaudible.
 

julian_hughes

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Okay, but why it's BS? What about that huge feedback?
It's an unattributed quote that offers someone unknown's supposed opinion and your posting it is intended to provoke a response (you quickly express frustration at lack of response), not to offer or ask anything. No facts are offered, nothing that could reasonably or rationally be discussed. This is typically perceived as or called flamebait or trolling. That's why people are not queuing up to have a fun discussion with you on the merits of unnamed and unquantifiable "chi-fi".
 

Adi777

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It's an unattributed quote that offers someone unknown's supposed opinion and your posting it is intended to provoke a response (you quickly express frustration at lack of response), not to offer or ask anything. No facts are offered, nothing that could reasonably or rationally be discussed. This is typically perceived as or called flamebait or trolling. That's why people are not queuing up to have a fun discussion with you on the merits of unnamed and unquantifiable "chi-fi".
What? Are you okay?
I asked a normal question, and was surprised by the lack of an answer.
Let me tell you - the answer to my question - "no" - it is not a satisfactory answer for me.
"you quickly express frustration at lack of response" - xD
 
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