Topping DX1 mini desktop DAC & AMP

[Pancaek]

@Matias @staticV3 @Elitzur–Vaidman @steabert Thank you all for your replies, with special thanks to @CedarX for your comprehensive description. I ended up ordering the DX1 today, should arrive sometime next week. I'm looking forward to having it on my desk and hearing what it can do.

 

[jsz]

I am certainly not an expert either but have learned a few things at ASR and can comment on this point... A higher power amp does not "produce" more bass at a given listening volume. What happens is the bass are at higher levels than the rest of the frequency range on almost all the music tracks produced by humans. So, if an amp is limited in power, the bass tend to suffer first (audible distortion, or lacking altogether).

The HD650 is a high-impedance HP, but in addition, it's impedance is variable: around 320 Ohm from 1kHz to 5kHz, and as high as 480 Ohm at 100Hz. This can exacerbate the issue of an amp that is voltage-limited (and other things if the amp has a high output impedance). That being said, the HD650 is not particularly "ineficient" and it does not need very high voltage & power to produce loud levels--hence @staticV3 and @Elitzur–Vaidman comments that an Apple dongle can drive the HD650 adequately.

Going back to the DX1 question and the DX3 Pro+ recommended by @Matias:

• The DX1 can produce 11Vpp (high Gain), which is more than enough to drive the HD650... very loud!
• The DX3 Pro+ can produce 21.5Vpp (high Gain), which is enough to drive the HD650 to... insane levels... blow your tympans... blow the headphone... or all of these !!!

If you prefer the DX1, because it's cheaper and more compact, go for it! If you can afford the DX3 Pro+, go for it! I am sure they are both fine, but I am also confident you will hear "differences": the DX1 will sound "warmer and more rounded" because... it is compact, cute, and has an AKM chip !!! The DX3 Pro+ will sound "cleaner, more technical"... because it is more expensive, it has an ESS chip, and it's technically better !!!
I am sure that there won't be any difference and both are going to be "transparent"... so, go for the one that put the biggest smile on your face!

I don't agree with the DAC being warmer due to DAC chip, granted the DX1 as a product is relatively warm in general. I've had alt AKM DAC's that sound quite piercing with similar headphones.

I do subjectively find every AKM based DAC (I've used) to share a similar narrow soundstage for some odd reason. I can't tell you why, but alt ESS and Cirrus based units seem more "open" in my personal stack of products. (This may be my specific limitation of products).

For example:

I recently bought a Truthear Shio with dual CS 43198 and it's warmer than the DX1. I also have a Creative G6 that seems more neutral than every else I own.. (Single CS 43131). Both have a bigger soundstage relative to this DX1 while the DX1 slots in the middle of that argument.

With that said, I do think power implementation and EE design can influence specific parts to skew along the subjective line. I would also argue high tolerances of an identical spec product may subjectively sound different to some people.

 

[CedarX]

I don't agree with the DAC being warmer due to DAC chip, granted the DX1 as a product is relatively warm in general. I've had alt AKM DAC's that sound quite piercing with similar headphones.

My comments were meant to be sarcastic! Sorry if it was misleading. I totally respect your opinion as long as it is clearly stated as subjective but to me, “transparent” is just that… transparent. I trust Topping to make sure the DX1 is transparent, if not TOTL. The choice of an AKM chip has probably more to do with supplier portfolio and cost considerations than “sound signature”,

 

[jsz]

My comments were meant to be sarcastic! Sorry if it was misleading. I totally respect your opinion as long as it is clearly stated as subjective but to me, “transparent” is just that… transparent. I trust Topping to make sure the DX1 is transparent, if not TOTL. The choice of an AKM chip has probably more to do with supplier portfolio and cost considerations than “sound signature”,

Agree. It's a bit cheaper than alt options.

 

[PurpaSmart]

For $99 this thing is great! It easily powers my HE 4XXs with high gain at 12 o'clock.

 

[OlolOshnik]

Can anyone post a high resolution photo of the internals?
I wonder what is the buffer for LO and HO.

 

[PurpaSmart]

Can anyone post a high resolution photo of the internals?
I wonder what is the buffer for LO and HO.

Well, Im trying to take mine apart, the problem is I can't get the board to slide out, I think the volume knob I think is glued. I don't wanna risk damaging my unit.

 

[OlolOshnik]

Well, Im trying to take mine apart, the problem is I can't get the board to slide out, I think the volume knob I think is glued. I don't wanna risk damaging my unit.

What a pity...
Maybe someone else has. Will wait.

 

[G1zm0]

Got mine couple of days ago and only registered here to tell a strange story about 3.5mm and 6.5mm outputs sounding different.
3.5mm having more dry and controlled bass and 6.5mm being more ?bloated?.
I'm no expert by any means and I know about online consensus that there should be no perceived difference among connector types.
Although one Russian speaking reviewer mentioned that 6.5mm output sounded more musical, while 3.5mm output sounded more energetic and more compatible for fast paced music. I just smiled, but decided to test it myself, but after switching back and forth between 3.5mm and 6.5mm I found no distinct difference, I thought I was hearing something, but couldn't place my finger on it and I just decided that I imagine things, because I was looking for difference and finally gave up.
But couple of minutes ago I was listening to "Spit out the bone" by Metallica on spotify
Song link on spotify
I thought it's a good song to test difference one last time and this time I clearly hear the difference, especially on 00:39 second with drum kicks.
At this point I became paranoid and asked my GF to listen to this song for one minute over both outputs and tell if there was any difference, I did not told her what to look for, just listen closely.
She said that she hears no difference, then I asked her to listen specifically from 00:30 to 00:40 and this time she was able to specifically tell that kicks over 3.5mm are more controlled, focused and energetic.

So, if someone has possible explanation, please share.
And please, can you guys with dx1 listen to song I linked, I'm really curious if you also can notice any difference.

I don't know, maybe it has something to do with output resistance changing with 6.5mm adapter and resistance of my Shure SRH1540, dunno.

 

[LDvo]

Got mine couple of days ago and only registered here to tell a strange story about 3.5mm and 6.5mm outputs sounding different.
3.5mm having more dry and controlled bass and 6.5mm being more ?bloated?.
I'm no expert by any means and I know about online consensus that there should be no perceived difference among connector types.
Although one Russian speaking reviewer mentioned that 6.5mm output sounded more musical, while 3.5mm output sounded more energetic and more compatible for fast paced music. I just smiled, but decided to test it myself, but after switching back and forth between 3.5mm and 6.5mm I found no distinct difference, I thought I was hearing something, but couldn't place my finger on it and I just decided that I imagine things, because I was looking for difference and finally gave up.
But couple of minutes ago I was listening to "Spit out the bone" by Metallica on spotify
Song link on spotify
I thought it's a good song to test difference one last time and this time I clearly hear the difference, especially on 00:39 second with drum kicks.
At this point I became paranoid and asked my GF to listen to this song for one minute over both outputs and tell if there was any difference, I did not told her what to look for, just listen closely.
She said that she hears no difference, then I asked her to listen specifically from 00:30 to 00:40 and this time she was able to specifically tell that kicks over 3.5mm are more controlled, focused and energetic.

So, if someone has possible explanation, please share.
And please, can you guys with dx1 listen to song I linked, I'm really curious if you also can notice any difference.

I don't know, maybe it has something to do with output resistance changing with 6.5mm adapter and resistance of my Shure SRH1540, dunno.

I compared the song on High Gain in both - yeah, it is different. Maybe, just maybe, 6.5mm was considered for full-size headphones and 3.5mm for IEM? (as I had to add more volume for 3.5mm, I didn't use anything fancy - old CAL! and modded Koss KSC75)

 

[CedarX]

I compared the song on High Gain in both - yeah, it is different. Maybe, just maybe, 6.5mm was considered for full-size headphones and 3.5mm for IEM? (as I had to add more volume for 3.5mm, I didn't use anything fancy - old CAL! and modded Koss KSC75)

I did a simple, quick measurement on my DX1: turned-off, using a multimeter, I measured about ~0.3 Ohm between the 3.5 and 6.35 Gnd, the same ~0.3 Ohm between the 3.5 and 6.35 L+, and the same ~0.3 Ohm between the 3.5 and 6.35 R+. 0.3 Ohm is what my multimeter shows for... Zero, no (measurable) resistance. In other words, the 3.5 and 6.35 appear to be two different ports of the same HPA outputs and I don't believe they can cause a sound difference.

Now, the cables, and the 3.5/6.35 adapters are a different story !!! I have a worn-out 6.35 adapter (plating partially gone) that shows about 0.8 Ohm resistance between each of its inputs and outputs. Not terrible but noticeably higher. I have some cables that show up to 15-20 Ohm resistances. Can it impact the headphones sound response? Absolutely yes! Especially if the HP have impedance (Edit: low impedance) that varies with frequency, or when the ground return wire is common between the L and R HP drivers (causes cross-feeding between L and R).

Edit 2: Just to be clear on the cable topic... I don't believe cables make a difference as long as they are "transparent", i.e. low impedance relative to the HP (and some other spec besides impedance?). My point was that if the HP impedance is low (did I read that some IEMs have impedance as low as 6 Ohm?), then the added resistance of a bad adapter, or simply switching between cables can make an audible difference.

 

[G1zm0]

I did a simple, quick measurement on my DX1: turned-off, using a multimeter, I measured about ~0.3 Ohm between the 3.5 and 6.35 Gnd, the same ~0.3 Ohm between the 3.5 and 6.35 L+, and the same ~0.3 Ohm between the 3.5 and 6.35 R+. 0.3 Ohm is what my multimeter shows for... Zero, no (measurable) resistance. In other words, the 3.5 and 6.35 appear to be two different ports of the same HPA outputs and I don't believe they can cause a sound difference.

Now, the cables, and the 3.5/6.35 adapters are a different story !!! I have a worn-out 6.35 adapter (plating partially gone) that shows about 0.8 Ohm resistance between each of its inputs and outputs. Not terrible but noticeably higher. I have some cables that show up to 15-20 Ohm resistances. Can it impact the headphones sound response? Absolutely yes! Especially if the HP have impedance (Edit: low impedance) that varies with frequency, or when the ground return wire is common between the L and R HP drivers (causes cross-feeding between L and R).

That's nice, did you by any chance also listened to the song I mentioned?
And if yes, did you also noticed the difference between outputs?

And one more quick question about dx1, in specs I see two values for frequency response 20hz to 20khz and 20hz to 40khz, it's related to source bit depth right? I mean, if I listen to 16bit/44.1khz files range would be 20-20 and if source file is 24bit/96khz for example then it would be 20-40?
I'm just wondering why not to state just one value which also covers 20khz, I mean 20hz-40khz.

 

[BDWoody]

...specs I see two values for frequency response 20hz to 20khz and 20hz to 40khz, it's related to source bit depth right? I mean, if I listen to 16bit/44.1khz files range would be 20-20 and if source file is 24bit/96khz for example then it would be 20-40?

That's a function of sampling rate, not bit depth.

The highest frequency sampled will be half the sampling rate, so 44.1kHz gives you frequencies up to 22.05 kHz. 96kHz sampling rate will give you frequencies up to 48kHz, etc.

Bit depth is about dynamic range, sampling rate determines the bandwidth limit.

 

[CedarX]

That's nice, did you by any chance also listened to the song I mentioned?
And if yes, did you also noticed the difference between outputs?

No I did not, and I won't even try: I am absolutely certain I will "hear" differences !!! But I have also learned to not trust my brain: when it's about evaluating sound differences by ear, I am so easily fooled! Since the question is about two different output ports and does not require swapping headphones, it would be relatively easy to setup a blind A/B test using a switch selector operated by a third (neutral) person. Maybe that's something you could try: describe your test setup, collect the results, and see if they are different from randomly guessing which port is which.

 

[G1zm0]

No I did not, and I won't even try: I am absolutely certain I will "hear" differences !!! But I have also learned to not trust my brain: when it's about evaluating sound differences by ear, I am so easily fooled! Since the question is about two different output ports and does not require swapping headphones, it would be relatively easy to setup a blind A/B test using a switch selector operated by a third (neutral) person. Maybe that's something you could try: describe your test setup, collect the results, and see if they are different from randomly guessing which port is which.

I already tried that and my results are 10 out of 10

 

[CedarX]

I already tried that and my results are 10 out of 10

Could you give more details on how you got these results? For example, were you switching the HP from one port to the other yourself? If you “know” which port you’re using, it is enough to seriously bias and invalidate the results…

 

[G1zm0]

Could you give more details on how you got these results? For example, were you switching the HP from one port to the other yourself? If you “know” which port you’re using, it is enough to seriously bias and invalidate the results…

Of course I wasn't switching ports myself, it wouldn't be blind test if I did so.
I asked my girlfriend to switch ports for me and also asked her to compensate time on 3.5mm also, the time which was required for switching to 6.35mm and screwing on adapter.
So, I was 100% blind.

And I was listening to 10sec fragments from "spit out the bone", from 00:30 to 00:40 and I was looking for drum kicks specifically.

 

[CedarX]

Of course I wasn't switching ports myself, it wouldn't be blind test if I did so.
I asked my girlfriend to switch ports for me and also asked her to compensate time on 3.5mm also, the time which was required for switching to 6.35mm and screwing on adapter.
So, I was 100% blind.

And I was listening to 10sec fragments from "spit out the bone", from 00:30 to 00:40 and I was looking for drum kicks specifically.

Seems reasonably blind… Still need to confirm whether it’s the DX1 or the screw-on adapter.

 

[G1zm0]

Seems reasonably blind… Still need to confirm whether it’s the DX1 or the screw-on adapter.

It should be an adapter, considering your measurements.
My adapter should be relatively good quality, it's the one which came with Shure srh1540 and I hope they included good one with $500 headphones ))
....but on the other hand, cables that came with it are terrible They are too stiff and microphonic.

As for the difference, bass becomes a bit muddy/bloated on 6.35mm with adapter and more precise and controlled on 3.5mm without adapter.

Oh, just remembered that I also have different cable with 2.5mm termination and 2.5 to 3.5 adapter, so I also can try 3.5mm port with adapter.

 

[PurpaSmart]

Got mine couple of days ago and only registered here to tell a strange story about 3.5mm and 6.5mm outputs sounding different.
3.5mm having more dry and controlled bass and 6.5mm being more ?bloated?.

I couldn't really tell any difference using my 400SE and 4XX.