Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[DavidMcRoy]

This device is not a replacement for an AVR. The only thing similar is, this DAC and an AVR both process more than two channels.


What we indeed need is for the AVR companies to up their game by offering better specifications -- full stop!

That's why I wrote, "I get that..."

The review isn't really a review because it doesn't tell you what the device is for or what it can or cannot do, it's just a DAC test. That's why people had questions and continue to 17-plus pages on.

 

[smkralik]

I hope Topping starts putting out stereo and multichannel ADC’s that I can use in pro audio applications. I am so SICK AND TIRED of pro audio companies claiming they have state of the art ADC’s that don’t even reach 100 dB sinad and that cost thousands.

 

[Labjr]

Didnt Linkwitz confirm in his opinion the minidsp was as good as the asp? The tech has moved forward a lot since then.

Let me ask you this - do you think each set of drivers perform identically, or the same in each build? Does each of our Lx521 builds have the same cabinet resonances etc.? The ability to tune/correct each driver is what really sets dsp apart - moving from asp to dsp with audiolense/okto8 was immense.

No, he said the ASP performed better than the miniDSP. I don't know that technology has changed that much in the past few years. I wouldn't use miniDSP. That's why I'm asking about other DSP software and the precision and sample rates which the conversions are done. Poorly done DSP can be terrible, worse than analog.

 

[PeteL]

I hope Topping starts putting out stereo and multichannel ADC’s that I can use in pro audio applications. I am so SICK AND TIRED of pro audio companies claiming they have state of the art ADC’s that don’t even reach 100 dB sinad and that cost thousands.

 

[dualazmak]

I don't see how you allocate 8 channels from the DSP to the 8 output channels of the Topping DAC.

You would please refer to my previous post #272 here on this thread.
My setup with OKTO DAC8PRO is like these two diagrams; please note that only one (single) USB 2.0 cable connecting PC to DAC8PRO.

 

[dtaylo1066]

To use this DAC for anything other than 2 channel audio would require the use of a PC or SBC to handle crossover and DSP and output 4-8 channels via one USB cable to the Topping's only input, which is USB. Fair enough, but limiting the units application for many.

I guess to have included 4 SPDIF inputs, such as on the OctoDAC, would have rocketed the price upward.

If you only need 4 channels of output, I think the MiniDSP flex, while lower in SINAD, is a better buy. But if you are running multichannel audio out of your PC via USB, this is a compelling buy.

 

[Holmz]

The device does not HAVE multiple digital inputs so it's quite moot: Why add ASRC to a single digital input USB device?

Maybe think of the USB like carrying an excel file across it?
And the excel file has 8 columns, which in this case represents the 8 channels side by side.

One does not send each row of an excel file, they send the whole enchilada all at once… and on the receiving end, one pulls out what they need to plot or graph .

 

[MenloBob]

This hits exactly the target audience, people doing computer DSP active crossover setups with Roon, Audiolense, Acourate and Rephase. Extra analog and digital inputs for sources would be nice, but not mandatory. This is actually a surprisingly large market, might be enough for me to replace my Motu AVB.

 

[kongwee]

In what scenario you may need a router in the DAC? Shouldn’t the DAW has a router to assign the channels anyway?

Focusrite that reviewed in here has router interface too.

 

[DWPress]

Nice win for Topping!

I wouldn't buy it though - I hate button volume controls, most useless thing ever invented when a big knob is so much more effective especially with a nice display. I know, most of you use the remote but for my set up a knob is used about 80% of the time. This is still a really nice option if you don't want to go with pro gear and don't need any input beyond USB, beats the snot out of ASUS or Creative sound cards.

 

[Draki]

View attachment 217972


Edit:Forgot to post how you choose:

View attachment 217977

Wasn't aware of this feature. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out.

 

[dartinbout]

Oh darn! I really wanted this with a mauve face plate! Baring that, I found 2 choices for the interconnect cables.

TOPPING TCT2 HIFI Audio Cable Large Three-core 6.35 Revolution XLR Male Balance Cable​

TOPPING TCT2 HIFI Audio Cable Large Three-core 6.35 Revolution XLR Male Balance | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TOPPING TCT2 HIFI Audio Cable Large Three-core 6.35 Revolution XLR Male Balance at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

and cheaper
Monoprice 1.5ft Premier Series XLR Male to 1/4inch TRS Male 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) 4759

1.5ft Premier Series XLR Male to 1/4inch TRS Male 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) 4759 | eBay

Balanced audio cables utilize impedance balanced lines that reduce EM and RF noise and extend the effective range of the cable run. Additionally, unlike standard unbalanced RCA interconnects that utilizes their braid as a signal return, balanced cables have a separate braided shield to provide...

www.ebay.com

These are all I found that are short enough for my needs. The back of my AV stack already looks like a black mamba orgy.

 

[KSTR]

Just curious, what are you referring to when mentioning new possibilities for measurement purposes?

The advantage manly comes with the option to parallel all eight outputs. This will bring down uncorrelated analog noise by 2.8x (-9dB).

Output impedance is reduced by a factor of eight, as is current demand per output, for the same load.

Further, you can apply slightly different DC offset and gain on the input sides before paralleling and that will reduce the digital noise as the individual modulators run totally different states. It looks like, from preliminary experiments I did on a D10B, that a proper set of DC biases will help reduce the ESS pattern of digital artifacts that peak around approx. -20dFS, averaging them out.

Overall, with paralleing and some pre-processing it looks like we can get a very good and robust test signal source.

 

[tifune]

View attachment 217906

Suppose I have the above configuration:
1) USB connected to PC and running Foobar2000
2) connection to active speakers as above

Does Foobar 2000 have channel assignment such as above or similar (the numbers above are just for reference)? What about SW cutoff frequency setting? Does Foobar2000 have cutoff freq setting?

Yes, it does. I play DTS and 5.1 FLAC regularly. I'm not sure about 7.1 but the DTS decoder does list Surround Back in the channel matrix.

I believe there's plugins for SW cutoff but I've never tried them.

 

[tifune]

Ok, after reading all comments, I am still a little confused, I need help here; is this possible?
I can use a PC to send sound to the DM7 via USB and video to a TV via HDMI and I pair 4 excellent stereo amps like Audiophonics HPA-S400T to the DAC , then I get a system that outperforms technically any AVR known by man? Is windows and software required up to the task? could you do Dolby Atmos?

Yes. Very active thread so hard to keep up, but 8 channels on a HTPC (probably more in Mac since you can aggregate devices) is rather trivial. On Windows the Atmos codec is free and DTS is $20 IIRC. From there you also have access to basically every room correction option on the market instead of just Audyssey, YPAO, etc. Dirac recently making strides on AVRs, though. When I tried with Apple Music Atmos, the results were strange - it ignored surround back in favor of rear heights. I think apps are a lossy 5.1 Atmos stream (TrueHD? I always get them confused)

Now, that being said, I'm a Microsoft cloud architect by trade and in spite of my comfort level managing thousands of Windows servers daily I still find all of the above too complicated. While I can certainly relate to the propeller head mindset, add up everything above and then price a Denon 3700 which does it all for you WITH some modicum of support if you get stuck along the way. What are you saving? $300-$400? Is that worth 50 hours trying to integrate it all yourself? For some, yes absolutely but I suspect not for most. And if you're expecting your Frankenstein to run smoothly while you're out with friends and your family's trying to have movie night without you, I have news for you...

Finally, for me the deal breaker is lack of upmixing support. I'd have to buy an AuroMatic plugin to the tune of ~$500 (although if Auro can stay afloat it appears Win10 is on the way) and I'm not sure there are upmixing options for Atmos/DTS/Dolby on a HTPC, certainly not beyond 8 channels.

If I were to buy one of these, it'd most likely be a 5.x setup. but again, as many have stated, this isn't a drop-in AVR replacement. It CAN get close if you want to put in the effort, but I don't think it's justified given how easy it is to find a b-stock AVR at a similar price point (accounting for software). And of course, most AVRs have amps which corssed over at 80Hz+ are almost certainly adequate for surround/height channels. If you're planning on doing something like active monitors plugged into different outlets with this device, you might as well budget for hum eliminators up front.

 

[Sokel]

Wasn't aware of this feature. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out.

It's one of the features that's always there but no one pays attention unless you come to need it.
You're welcome!

 

[BR52]

Ok thanks, they are defined as "OEM"not "Diy"

 

[digicidal]

Nice win for Topping!

I wouldn't buy it though - I hate button volume controls, most useless thing ever invented when a big knob is so much more effective especially with a nice display. I know, most of you use the remote but for my set up a knob is used about 80% of the time. This is still a really nice option if you don't want to go with pro gear and don't need any input beyond USB, beats the snot out of ASUS or Creative sound cards.

Since a PC is required, many (myself included) will simply set levels on the DAC side at the peak limit for the room/monitors and handle granular adjustment on the PC side. If the desire is to use it both as DAC and preamp, then I totally agree - as the buttons are definitely harder to use and less intuitive than a knob.

 

[sarumbear]

why?

1. There is no HDMI in or out
2. There is no HDMI switch
3. There is no audio source selection
4. There is no possibility to decode spatial audio (for a consumer)

 

[Matias]

Ok, after reading all comments, I am still a little confused, I need help here; is this possible?
I can use a PC to send sound to the DM7 via USB and video to a TV via HDMI and I pair 4 excellent stereo amps like Audiophonics HPA-S400T to the DAC , then I get a system that outperforms technically any AVR known by man? Is windows and software required up to the task? could you do Dolby Atmos?

When using a PC as source, playing movies with multichannel audio with a software like JRiver MC or VLC, then sure it will be a killer home theater audio chain. The problem is that as far as I know it won't support Dolby Atmos, and you need the PC playing your content, no Blu Ray discs, video game consoles or TV apps as source. So yes, for that particular use case, PC as source, it is a killer system.