Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[nagster]

It seems that Topping's designers do not recommend passive unbalanced conversion with cables or connectors, at least for the DM7 and D10 Balanced outputs.
It is safe to use a suitable transformer conversion or active converter.

Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

Does it matter if the attenuation applies on digital or analog like Okto for example (if I'm not mistaken)? My understanding; Okto DAC8PRO's gain/volume control is configured by digital attenuation functionality of ES9028PRO reflecting to volume/gain of DAC8PRO's analog out, right? In...

www.audiosciencereview.com

By the way, when the D10 Balanced's output was passively converted, noise, distortion, and DC offset increased.

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It looks (in my case) ,that the onboard switching power supply + 5.65V / -5.6V, which supplies the output analog circuits (3 OA) behind the DAC, fails / does not start ..). That PSU is powered from 5V inputs. The all other onboard sources (3.3V, 1.2V, 1V) start up normally, they are linear (not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Dave Bullet]

I stand corrected. I was wrong.

I just measured 128mV of DC offset using just using one or other balanced pins (aka XLR -> RCA). Therefore don't do it

 

[MWC]

I use the D10 with 2 active monitors which can use either balanced or unbalanced input, so I use balanced with the D10. I need a Mch DSD DAC for 5.1 Mch music with unbalanced outs. Any suggestions for around the same price as the DM7?

 

[digicidal]

I use the D10 with 2 active monitors which can use either balanced or unbalanced input, so I use balanced with the D10. I need a Mch DSD DAC for 5.1 Mch music with unbalanced outs. Any suggestions for around the same price as the DM7?

You might try the Flex HT - you'll need to software convert (JRiver, etc.), or use a source to do DSD->PCM over HDMI... but even a cheap BDP should do that for you.
Upside is you can use REW, etc. to build filters for free, or pay a bit more and get Dirac for everything.
Downside is they aren't in stock yet (but since the other models are here, it should be soon). Possibly slightly less transparent than the Topping model, but not in any way you can actually hear I'm reasonably sure. At least based on their previous offerings, it should be in the upper "good" group but probably not in the "best" group ASR-wise.

 

[MWC]

You might try the Flex HT - you'll need to software convert (JRiver, etc.), or use a source to do DSD->PCM over HDMI... but even a cheap BDP should do that for you.
Upside is you can use REW, etc. to build filters for free, or pay a bit more and get Dirac for everything.
Downside is they aren't in stock yet (but since the other models are here, it should be soon). Possibly slightly less transparent than the Topping model, but not in any way you can actually hear I'm reasonably sure. At least based on their previous offerings, it should be in the upper "good" group but probably not in the "best" group ASR-wise.

Thanks for trying to help. I specified a DSD DAC as I would not want to do the pointless conversion of DSD to PCM. The Flex HT seems to be limited to PCM but otherwise somewhat interesting.

 

[charlielaub]

I stand corrected. I was wrong.

I just measured 128mV of DC offset using just using one or other balanced pins (aka XLR -> RCA). Therefore don't do it

It could still theoretically work if the input on the downstream equipment (e.g. amplifier) has a DC blocking capacitor.

Is the same DC offset present on both balanced lines (hot and cold)?

 

[Dave Bullet]

It could still theoretically work if the input on the downstream equipment (e.g. amplifier) has a DC blocking capacitor.

Is the same DC offset present on both balanced lines (hot and cold)?

HI Charlie,

Yes - the offset is identical on both hot / cold pins.

 

[Whoareyou]

My DAC never enters standby when no signal is present. Only time it will go to standby is when computer is turned off or in standby mode. When I wake-up computer, DAC immediately wakes from standby.

In settings, DM7 is configured to Auto Signal for which Manual says "If the current input is not connected or input signal is invalid in 1 minute, it will automatically ender standby"

Anyone else notice this or something simple I am missing?

.

 

[Nutul]

But but but... Okto is made in Central Europe and has a good reputation for not breaking down from what I know.

Okto Research

Objective performance

www.oktoresearch.com

View attachment 217885

These are proper masterpieces. Made in EU. The price also is competitive, considering it's made in the EU...

 

[charlielaub]

These are proper masterpieces. Made in EU. The price also is competitive, considering it's made in the EU...

Maybe, but they are often out of stock. Also, it's not the same type of product as the DM7, which is a DAC only.

 

[Nutul]

Maybe, but they are often out of stock. Also, it's not the same type of product as the DM7, which is a DAC only.

Basically agree, although from what I remember, the streamer is optional; so you can get the DAC only.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Basically agree, although from what I remember, the streamer is optional; so you can get the DAC only.

Not that. The Okto has stereo AES/EBU output and 8channel AES/EBU input.

 

[charlielaub]

Not that. The Okto has stereo AES/EBU output and 8channel AES/EBU input.

Slight correction to your post - when looking at their website today I see two models, the dac8 PRO and the dac8 Stereo. Both are digital input only.
The dac8 Stereo has 2 outputs and the dac8 PRO has 8 outputs.

It's a pity that there is not at least 2ch (stereo) analog input, but I suppose that increases the complexity. Is there a good solution for this that will not lead to clock mismatch problems? Without a wordclock output you cannot slave another unit's clock to the dac8 clock.

Also, I recall that at one time there was some talk about being able to implement some DSP inside the unit, but this was probably an earlier version. Not sure if this is possible now. Otherwise it is a fancy and good sounding 8-channel DAC but if you do not need AES-EBU input I am not sure why it would be superior to the TOPPING DM7, which is about half the cost. The Okto does give you volume control, but is that worth $600 more?

If this was a DSP unit with analog and digital inputs AND had the level of audio performance of the dac8 units I would be very interested.

My current solution does DSP in software under Linux, which can run on small and low cost mini-PCs. I pair that with some sort of DAC or DAC+ADC and I have a full solution including preamp features, input switching, virtually unlimited DSP, and I can stream the audio to multiple endpoints that remain very well synced by distributing a clock via NTP. It's an audio/loudspeaker/crossover swiss army knife! The only drawback is some latency, however, since the system is for audio only this is not a problem for me (low latency to match video content, movies, etc. is not required).

 

[mdsimon2]

Slight correction to your post - when looking at their website today I see two models, the dac8 PRO and the dac8 Stereo. Both are digital input only.
The dac8 Stereo has 2 outputs and the dac8 PRO has 8 outputs.

It's a pity that there is not at least 2ch (stereo) analog input, but I suppose that increases the complexity. Is there a good solution for this that will not lead to clock mismatch problems? Without a wordclock output you cannot slave another unit's clock to the dac8 clock.

Also, I recall that at one time there was some talk about being able to implement some DSP inside the unit, but this was probably an earlier version. Not sure if this is possible now. Otherwise it is a fancy and good sounding 8-channel DAC but if you do not need AES-EBU input I am not sure why it would be superior to the TOPPING DM7, which is about half the cost. The Okto does give you volume control, but is that worth $600 more?

If this was a DSP unit with analog and digital inputs AND had the level of audio performance of the dac8 units I would be very interested.

My current solution does DSP in software under Linux, which can run on small and low cost mini-PCs. I pair that with some sort of DAC or DAC+ADC and I have a full solution including preamp features, input switching, virtually unlimited DSP, and I can stream the audio to multiple endpoints that remain very well synced by distributing a clock via NTP. It's an audio/loudspeaker/crossover swiss army knife! The only drawback is some latency, however, since the system is for audio only this is not a problem for me (low latency to match video content, movies, etc. is not required).

Kal's statement was correct, the dac8 pro has 8 channel AES input (4x stereo), 8 channel analog output as well as a stereo AES output. If you want to use the Okto as clock master the AES output allows you to clock sync another device assuming it can be clocked by AES/SPDIF. When the Okto is used in Pure AES or USB/AES mode it will be clock sync'd to the AES input.

IMO, the enhanced clocking functionality is the main advantage over the Topping DM7. I also find it much more aesthetically pleasing than the DM7 but I will admit that others may have differing opinions.

Michael

 

[charlielaub]

Kal's statement was correct, the dac8 pro has 8 channel AES input (4x stereo), 8 channel analog output as well as a stereo AES output. If you want to use the Okto as clock master the AES output allows you to clock sync another device assuming it can be clocked by AES/SPDIF. When the Okto is used in Pure AES or USB/AES mode it will be clock sync'd to the AES input.

IMO, the enhanced clocking functionality is the main advantage over the Topping DM7. I also find it much more aesthetically pleasing than the DM7 but I will admit that others may have differing opinions.

Michael

I see my confusion. When he says "8 channels AES/EBU input" in my mind I was thinking 8 AES/EBU inputs (each stereo). In any case I was also pointing out that there are two products sold by Okto and he wasn't specific, although now it seems obvious which one he was talking about.

Regarding what you called the "enhanced clocking functionality", one would need to build some circuitry to derive the work clock from the AES/EBU's bit clock. I had in mind pro audio interfaces and other devices that have a sync input that is a word clock but no AES/EBU input. This would be used to sync the ADC of that device to the clock in the Okto DAC, with a computer connected to both via USB. That would give the user analog input capability. Sorry if I was not more clear about that.

I own two TOPPING DM7 and I think they are very nice looking and the display is informative. For a multichannel DAC I think it is a great product all around.

 

[mdsimon2]

Regarding what you called the "enhanced clocking functionality", one would need to build some circuitry to derive the work clock from the AES/EBU's bit clock. I had in mind pro audio interfaces and other devices that have a sync input that is a word clock but no AES/EBU input. This would be used to sync the ADC of that device to the clock in the Okto DAC, with a computer connected to both via USB. That would give the user analog input capability. Sorry if I was not more clear about that.

I think you would agree that converting between AES / TOSLINK / SPDIF is rather trivial with inexpensive off the shelf devices? Which pro audio interface are you using that has a word clock input but cannot be clocked by AES or SPDIF input? And again, if your ADC has a digital output you can feed that in to the AES input of the Okto and Okto will be slaved to the ADC.

I just can't think of case where you need a word clock input where AES / SPDIF won't do.

Michael

 

[Hertel]

Hello everybody

With the DM7 connected to a PC, can I make a stereo system work with two subwoofers with active crossover?

In this case the stereo channels would have to have a high pass filter while the two subwoofers would have their low pass filters.

I know the MiniDso Flex does this, but it's more expensive and I prefer the flexibility of having more channels than the Dm7 has.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Slight correction to your post - when looking at their website today I see two models, the dac8 PRO and the dac8 Stereo. Both are digital input only.

Yup but the DAC8 Pro has, in addition to the common USB digital input, 8channels of AES/EBU digital input as well as 2channels of AES/EBU digital output.

In any case I was also pointing out that there are two products sold by Okto and he wasn't specific, although now it seems obvious which one he was talking about.

It's the only one that is close to being comparable to the DM7, the subject of this thread.

With the DM7 connected to a PC, can I make a stereo system work with two subwoofers with active crossover?

In this case the stereo channels would have to have a high pass filter while the two subwoofers would have their low pass filters.

You need to do that earlier in the signal path.

 

[charlielaub]

I cannot say for sure but I believe that the digital input is only used for a clock source when it is the selected input

Hello everybody

With the DM7 connected to a PC, can I make a stereo system work with two subwoofers with active crossover?

In this case the stereo channels would have to have a high pass filter while the two subwoofers would have their low pass filters.

I know the MiniDso Flex does this, but it's more expensive and I prefer the flexibility of having more channels than the Dm7 has.

Yes, but the DM7 is just a DAC - it has no DSP filtering capabilities itself unlike the miniDSP FLEX series.

 

[charlielaub]

I think you would agree that converting between AES / TOSLINK / SPDIF is rather trivial with inexpensive off the shelf devices? Which pro audio interface are you using that has a word clock input but cannot be clocked by AES or SPDIF input? And again, if your ADC has a digital output you can feed that in to the AES input of the Okto and Okto will be slaved to the ADC.

I just can't think of case where you need a word clock input where AES / SPDIF won't do.

Michael

I thought about this overnight. Assuming (making a leap here) that the interface with ADC has an AES-EBU input you are 100% correct. It is something I never really considered and an interesting way to slave two interfaces.

The AES-EBU and SP/DIF audio format is identical but AES-EBU is much less common than SP/DIF. These formats are not identical nor directly interchangeable, with different signal levels and different termination impedances. Do you know of a reliable low-cost converter from AES-EBU to SP/DIF?