Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[Kal Rubinson]

In non-niche news, Topping gave me access to a firmware that allows individual, native, channel volume for the DM7, from the remote. It works as advertised with out issue from my limited testing. If I'm not mistaken this is the same chip that Okto uses (with the same abilities and limits). Soooo, 8 channel DSD256 isn't going to be possible until a chip with that design is released. I don't know what the underlying architecture is for the Exasound but I think they do the dac chip in house, hence the 10x cost over our beloved DM7.

AFAIK, all three use stock ESS Sabre ES9038PRO DAC chips.

 

[dualazmak]

AFAIK, one ES9028PRO in OKTO DAC8PRO; one ES9038PRO in OPPO SONICA DAC and in Topping DM7...

Pavel of OKTO Research once kindly wrote to me that "the DAC chip inside our (OKTO) products is the ES9028PRO (single chip). It is the same digital-wise as the ES9038PRO, the only difference is in output resistance (and current). Our analog output stage is highly optimized for the ES9028PRO so there would be no benefit in placing the ES9038PRO instead. The limitation for 192kHz PCM and 2xDSD is due to transfer speed limitation in XMOS processor (for 8 channels), not in the DAC chip."

 

[dualazmak]

And also AFAIK, MOTU UltiraLite Mk5 uses two of ES9028PRO (plus one of AKM 5578 ADC) in it with sophisticated their own (?) XMOS controller(s) and firmware/software.
You can see inside photos of MOTU Mk5 here...

 

[dualazmak]

Dim Minded Zebra, Dense Monkey Zealot, ..........

and "DeMilitarized Zone" in our internet access router....

 

[da Choge]

I don't know what the underlying architecture is for the Exasound but I think they do the dac chip in house, hence the 10x cost over our beloved DM7.

I think it is the implementation of the chip along with lots of proprietary design that exaSound uses to enable their units to have greater functionality than others. exaSound components have always been way more expensive than other consumer-level DACs or multichannel DACs (except for the multichannel Merging Technologies and all the other "audiophile-level" uber-expensive stereo DACs -- not that there are hardly any consumer-level multi-channel DACs out there at all). Huge kudos to Topping for trying this unit out on the market and offering it at the price-level they have !!! It is, undoubtedly, a very basic unit, but what else do we have?

 

[sarumbear]

while i appreciate the great engineering in what they have provided, the single USB input is useless to me. my signal path needs SPDIF or some other paired 2 channel inputs coming in from my DSP for my multi-way stereo speaker setup. as it stands this can really only be used with a computer setup, which isn’t my preference for hifi use. tragically close to perfection!

How do you propose to send 8 channels over SPDIF, which is a stereo signal? Or, do you mean you want 4x SPDIF inputs?

 

[nagster]

The Topping DM7 is much appreciated by those wanting to run an active DSP crossover stereo or a multi-channel speaker system. Thanks very much.

Thanks also for you expert advice regards not recommending use of Topping DM7 to supply an amp with only unbalanced RCA inputs.

Unfortunately many of us have unbalanced amps. For those of us that dont have balanced amps an easy and affordable cable adapter is appealing. Please can I ask your opinion regards a possible third topology for a TRS to RCA adapter cable?

The third way is using a resistor to ground the - signal. If the amp input impedance is matched with a resistor grounding the - pin it would appear to partly mimic the balanced configuration?

This would appear to be a middle way and avoid the problems of the first topology with direct grounding the - output (insulting the DAC output stage with a direct short) or the second option with the - floating (with DC offset plus on/off thumps and multiple ground loops).

If you connect the ground of a device with only unbalanced inputs to the ground of an output device, you cannot escape the effects of ground loops. (Regardless of whether it's DM7 or not, and how the cold signal is terminated)

The unbalanced connection of the D10B output resulted in increased distortion and DC offset regardless of how the cold signal was terminated. A similar possibility exists for DM7.

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It looks (in my case) ,that the onboard switching power supply + 5.65V / -5.6V, which supplies the output analog circuits (3 OA) behind the DAC, fails / does not start ..). That PSU is powered from 5V inputs. The all other onboard sources (3.3V, 1.2V, 1V) start up normally, they are linear (not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It looks (in my case) ,that the onboard switching power supply + 5.65V / -5.6V, which supplies the output analog circuits (3 OA) behind the DAC, fails / does not start ..). That PSU is powered from 5V inputs. The all other onboard sources (3.3V, 1.2V, 1V) start up normally, they are linear (not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sarumbear]

If you connect the ground of a device with only unbalanced inputs to the ground of an output device, you cannot escape the effects of ground loops. (Regardless of whether it's DM7 or not, and how the cold signal is terminated)

The unbalanced connection of the D10B output resulted in increased distortion and DC offset regardless of how the cold signal was terminated. A similar possibility exists for DM7.

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It looks (in my case) ,that the onboard switching power supply + 5.65V / -5.6V, which supplies the output analog circuits (3 OA) behind the DAC, fails / does not start ..). That PSU is powered from 5V inputs. The all other onboard sources (3.3V, 1.2V, 1V) start up normally, they are linear (not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It looks (in my case) ,that the onboard switching power supply + 5.65V / -5.6V, which supplies the output analog circuits (3 OA) behind the DAC, fails / does not start ..). That PSU is powered from 5V inputs. The all other onboard sources (3.3V, 1.2V, 1V) start up normally, they are linear (not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

View attachment 222986

You should not connect the ground of a balanced output device to anywhere but the cable shield.

The tests on that post is done using wrong connections and hence is not representative. If the conversion was done properly then the only difference would be related to the level change occurs between balanced and unbalanced.

Both connector adapters and adapter cables are used. We do not know how the XLR to RCA cable is wired. However, it looks like the connector adapters are used on the output of the device, which should never be done. You are "adapting" a balanced signal to an unbalanced input, hence the "adapter" should be on the input of the unbalanced device. The balanced signal should be allowed to carried on a balance cable and only at the other end be converted to unbalanced. Furthermore, the ground of a balanced output should never be treated as the signal connection.

 

[NiToNi]

Just saw this product but the thread is TLDR.

Is there any reason why this DAC shouldn’t work with RPi4+CamillaDSP?

Want to upgrade from miniDSP U-DAC8 (balanced plus better performance).

The only thing missing on this is a single-channel balanced input using the same clock) for a measurement mic. Perhaps UM7 mkII

 

[mdsimon2]

Just saw this product but the thread is TLDR.

Is there any reason why this DAC shouldn’t work with RPi4+CamillaDSP?

Want to upgrade from miniDSP U-DAC8 (balanced plus better performance).

The only thing missing on this is a single-channel balanced input using the same clock) for a measurement mic. Perhaps UM7 mkII

It should work but sometimes certain DACs can be a bit funny depending on specific OS used. It was confirmed to work with Raspberry Pi OS Buster (5.10 kernel) here -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...g-dm7-8-channel-dac-review.35661/post-1269856.

Michael

 

[NiToNi]

It should work but sometimes certain DACs can be a bit funny depending on specific OS used. It was confirmed to work with Raspberry Pi OS Buster (5.10 kernel) here -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...g-dm7-8-channel-dac-review.35661/post-1269856.

Michael

Thanks, Michael.

 

[Sokel]

Quick question: does volume control works with native DSD?
(to add,I have the same question for Okto )

EDIT: be very careful if you're about to test it connected straight to a power amp.

 

[nagster]

You should not connect the ground of a balanced output device to anywhere but the cable shield.

The tests on that post is done using wrong connections and hence is not representative. If the conversion was done properly then the only difference would be related to the level change occurs between balanced and unbalanced.

Both connector adapters and adapter cables are used. We do not know how the XLR to RCA cable is wired. However, it looks like the connector adapters are used on the output of the device, which should never be done. You are "adapting" a balanced signal to an unbalanced input, hence the "adapter" should be on the input of the unbalanced device. The balanced signal should be allowed to carried on a balance cable and only at the other end be converted to unbalanced. Furthermore, the ground of a balanced output should never be treated as the signal connection.

The tests on that post is done using wrong connections

??
yes. It is a mistake to connect a differential signal directly to an unbalanced input.
As far as I know, there is no way to properly convert a differential signal to a single-ended signal with just a cable. Regardless of the connection method, they all have to compromise safety, signal quality, etc.
I posted those results.

hence is not representative.

Is that so? I posted what I thought was the most asked connection method, but I may have guessed wrong.
What connection methods do you think members are most likely to try?

If the conversion was done properly then the only difference would be related to the level change occurs between balanced and unbalanced.

Exactly.
For example:

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It looks (in my case) ,that the onboard switching power supply + 5.65V / -5.6V, which supplies the output analog circuits (3 OA) behind the DAC, fails / does not start ..). That PSU is powered from 5V inputs. The all other onboard sources (3.3V, 1.2V, 1V) start up normally, they are linear (not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sarumbear]

The only thing missing on this is a single-channel balanced input using the same clock) for a measurement mic. Perhaps UM7 mkII

It is DAC not a ADC.

 

[Haruko]

question: does it show in windows as input 1-2, 3-4, etc... (need to use virtual cable) or can it be easily set as 7.1 in windows sound settings ?

 

[gandalfandula]

How do you propose to send 8 channels over SPDIF, which is a stereo signal? Or, do you mean you want 4x SPDIF inputs?

Yes 4x which is what I am currently using out of my minidsp nanodigi. But this signal path doesn't have any clocking or syncing for the separate DACs. So moving to a USB based system centered on this DAC would probably be a big improvement.

 

[mdsimon2]

Yes 4x which is what I am currently using out of my minidsp nanodigi. But this signal path doesn't have any clocking or syncing for the separate DACs. So moving to a USB based system centered on this DAC would probably be a big improvement.

The SPDIF outputs from the nanodigi contain an embedded sync'd clock signal, as long as you are using identical DACs they will be sync'd. If you do not use identical DACs you may need to account for latency differences between the DACs which can be done using the delay functionality of the nanodigi.

Overall the nanodigi is a great way to sync multiple DACs.

Michael

 

[Sokel]

Quick question: does volume control works with native DSD?
(to add,I have the same question for Okto )

EDIT: be very careful if you're about to test it connected straight to a power amp.

Anyone yet?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Anyone yet?

Which VC are you referring to? The front panel (master) or the firmware-based one? I have both plus the exaSound connected up right now.

 

[Sokel]

Which VC are you referring to? The front panel (master) or the firmware-based one? I have both plus the exaSound connected up right now.

Either,I just want to know is there is any kind of VC over DSD by the dac itself.