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Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

b4nt

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Anyone knows what that is?

3710.PNG
 

nagster

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The D90SE proved that toroidal transformers, Accusilicon oscillators, linear regulators from Texas Instrument, Nichicon filter capacitors, etc. was useless in order to obtain high performance.

Improving efficiency such as reducing the number of parts and downsizing is the correct evolution.
Furthermore, the D90SE has achieved the highest performance.

I want you to achieve the theoretical value in the future.
Do we have to live at 0K?
Well, let's compromise at 290K.

The end of DAC development.

What kind of sound does it make?
No, nothing. Copper wire for DA conversion.
It is not affected by the subjectivity of the audio designer.
There are no obstacles.

Only the hearts of composers and performers are transmitted.
 

Mrgoogle

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I just wanted to know if it does anything so we can evaluate if that's doable.
wonder if Topping D90SE has galvanic isolated USB GND to Analog GND , My NAIM DAC have different architect , you can read about it here https://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/files/naim_dac_august_2009.pdf, upload it even here too ,
I bought GUSTARD X26 PRO too , but it doesn't have galvanic isolation , and I get ground loop problem and hum, My NAIM DAC don't have such issue and it has galvanic isolation . maybe I buy D90SE if it had galvanic USB to analog isolation.
 

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bboris77

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I was actually considering purchasing the D90SE or the D30/A30 Pro combo, but I have to admit I am a little hesitant considering the "shrug of the shoulders" reaction to various reports of coil whine on these units. Knowing myself, I would not be able to tolerate any audible coil whine coming from any of the devices that reside on my desktop. While I understand what @JohnYang1997 was saying about linear power supplies also having issues with the mains hum and vibrations, I have never experienced 60 Hz hum that is clearly audible and intrusive from any of my desktop DACs and amplifiers. I have seen it with power amplifiers, but they are not designed for desktop use and deal with much higher current.

I would like to know what the official position of Topping is to this type of phenomenon. Is it considered a defect that will warrant a replacement? Is the issue being looked into to ensure that future revisions of these products with SMPS PSUs do not exhibit audible coil whine? I am not desperate to buy right now but would like to know if a fix is coming. It is fine if you are considering this normal as well, since Sony does for their PS5, and they have sold 9 million of them.

The only inconsistency I see here is that this is a flagship device in every other sense of the word - it would seem bizarre to me to have a marvel of engineering in every aspect except this one.
 

PatentLawyer

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My D90SE has no whine. I put a mic right on it and did a FFT. No high frequencies above the noise floor, and no delta with on/off.
 

David_M

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SMPSes switch/operate at much higher than 20kHz frequencies hence should be inaudible.
 

JohnYang1997

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SMPSes switch/operate at much higher than 20kHz frequencies hence should be inaudible.
There are various ways coil whine could exist under various conditions. You can't just think switching frequency is higher than 20khz then it would be inaudible.
 

JohnYang1997

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I was actually considering purchasing the D90SE or the D30/A30 Pro combo, but I have to admit I am a little hesitant considering the "shrug of the shoulders" reaction to various reports of coil whine on these units. Knowing myself, I would not be able to tolerate any audible coil whine coming from any of the devices that reside on my desktop. While I understand what @JohnYang1997 was saying about linear power supplies also having issues with the mains hum and vibrations, I have never experienced 60 Hz hum that is clearly audible and intrusive from any of my desktop DACs and amplifiers. I have seen it with power amplifiers, but they are not designed for desktop use and deal with much higher current.

I would like to know what the official position of Topping is to this type of phenomenon. Is it considered a defect that will warrant a replacement? Is the issue being looked into to ensure that future revisions of these products with SMPS PSUs do not exhibit audible coil whine? I am not desperate to buy right now but would like to know if a fix is coming. It is fine if you are considering this normal as well, since Sony does for their PS5, and they have sold 9 million of them.

The only inconsistency I see here is that this is a flagship device in every other sense of the word - it would seem bizarre to me to have a marvel of engineering in every aspect except this one.
As being said, if the coil whine is too loud too tolerate one can just ask for a replacement unit.

About the hum of transformers, how often do you put their ears close to the unit and listen to the hum? Same here, many only reports coil whine when seeing others report it and listen for themselves. Most wouldn't notice otherwise. Otherwise our customer service would be bombarded with complaints.
 

ReaderZ

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As being said, if the coil whine is too loud too tolerate one can just ask for a replacement unit.

About the hum of transformers, how often do you put their ears close to the unit and listen to the hum? Same here, many only reports coil whine when seeing others report it and listen for themselves. Most wouldn't notice otherwise. Otherwise our customer service would be bombarded with complaints.

IMO if I need to put my ear next to it to hear it it's not an issue at all, if I can hear it at my usual sitting position then it's a deal breaker, pretty black and white issue.
 

bboris77

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Not really that simple. And not often the case shown here. There are different types. Under heavy load. Light load. Coil, transformer, or ceramic capacitors. Subharmonic, skipping mode etc.
Agreed. It is a very difficult and frustrating issue to diagnose and fix. For example, the PS5 coil whine shows itself under heavy load only. My LG OLED is the exact opposite - it only emits coil whine in standby mode at very light load. I’ve had phone chargers that worked silently for months only to develop loud coil whine buzzing all of a sudden. I’ve had PSUs for led lamps that would sing only when the light was partially dimmed. And so on. I do not envy any company that has to troubleshoot this.
 

Angsty

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Thank you for your answers! - The thing is that the 5v sounds better through my amp. The 4v seems too quiet. But I was wondering if the 4v measures better or worse than the 5v using RCA's in DAC only mode. (No preamp)
Using the higher output voltage setting also puts a bit less gain that has to be delivered by your preamp. In some preamps that could result in less output noise.
 

Mrgoogle

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There are various ways coil whine could exist under various conditions. You can't just think switching frequency is higher than 20khz then it would be inaudible.
Transformer should have so call vacuum varnish or potting with epoxy which make them noiseless and viberation free , it is very common method , it cost extra . I made a lot of such transformer and they are dead silent.
For none switching power supply, I buy these https://sklep.toroidy.pl/en_US/p/TT...sformer-TSAS30VA-voltage-from-55-to-100-V/377

Whole transformer is vacuum encapsuled, epoxy filled in a polished, stainless steel box.
 
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Mrgoogle

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It is viberation between wire in transformer, they did not make so call vacuum varnishing coating on transformer, it is very common method.
They put the whole transformer in varnish tank , and vacuum out the air . It cost extera.
 
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