Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[slamman]

Remember, when we say non-performant devices color the sound, we are being super generous. Most of the time they just screw up the sound and rely on typical audiophile have such poor listening acuity as to not notice. And that they can be influenced with stories of what the device is doing than reality. Oh this device is more analog like. Oh really? Where is the proof of that? Just because you added noise and distortion to the audio path, it doesn't mean that you managed such especially when there is no such phenomena.

Anyway, this is a thread about Topping D90SE. Any generic arguments like that belongs elsewhere.

thanks for the perspective ! and @JohnYang1997 i think i more clearly understand where you are coming from.

 

[galanakop]

with a more headphone amplifier I will connect it to have a very good performance for my headphones ??? (hd 660s)
Basically I am thinking of the D90SE together with the Pre 90 and the headphone A 90. It would be believed to be a very good combination for my speakers (genelec 8351) but also for my headphones ??? (hd 660s)

 

[Jimbob54]

with a more headphone amplifier I will connect it to have a very good performance for my headphones ??? (hd 660s)

With pretty much any DAC and amp from Topping (or other makers) you should get great performance. Check the recent Topping /Shenzenaudio combined dac amp.

 

[Mulder]

No.
There's also nothing wrong inherently putting sound into products(electronics). It will just be coloration, perhaps distortion etc. Selling those product with customers knowing what they are is fine. It's basically crime to me for those product to claim, resolving, transparent, clean etc.

The thing is with your method you make decisions by listening the component with other colored components and you can make mistakes doing so. And then you have to try out different components to make another mistake to correct the previous mistake. Essentially as the other person said, chasing your own tail. You don't know where the goal is. You can say I'm enjoying it so I reach the goal. Are you certain this is the sound you want or the best with your budget? Or you simply don't want to spend the time or simply don't care too much, it's good enough is good enough.

Using the other method, basically you know what part is right, what isn't and what can be improved. And you can precisely know what your preference is and adjust accordingly. This method does not prohibit coloration. That's the part of the misunderstanding. Based on science you can spend the least amount of money that you know won't be the limitation of the system and put most effort making the weakest point better. Maybe you can call this method deliberate, or active or something like that. Efficient, everything is clear, you know what you are getting.

I very much recognize this. It is like hunting a tail in a maze. Nowadays I do not care to even listen. I go completely on measurement values, functions and reputation when I buy something new. the fact is that you soon lose interest in gadgets that color the sound because you realize that neutral sound sounds best in the long run. I find it incredibly strange that so many people cling to subjectivism, and do not think that sound quality can be measured objectively. The irony is that poorly performing and coloring gadgets are often much more expensive than good electronics. Sorry I'm a little off-topic here

 

[jmillar]

Maybe I shouldn't say but it's single digit.
Of course I don't have to make sense to you it's from our perspective.
To consumer, it's simply a feature.
And again, if one finds it too expensive just look for something else.

You could have the same HW in all units and sell a version at lower cost with the said "feature" disabled in firmware (and remove the sticker). You get economies of scale because you only build ONE device. I've seen this sort of segmentation in electronic gear before. "MQA free" wishers will be happy, your production chains will be just as simple, and you will sell more units. The MQA issue has been so polarizing that I actually feel you may gain the additional sales to those who might be tempted to look elsewhere.

 

[ShiZo]

I have just confirmed that the problem with SMSL M500 where one channel driven causes problems, is NOT an issue for D90SE:

View attachment 136559

As a side-effect, you can see the incredible channel separation of 140 dB!

Can someone explain this measurement? Am i reading the graph incorrectly? The distortion is below 130 on the left and right but amir says 140db.

Is that typo or am i just reading this wrong?

Is channel seperation the same thing as crosstalk? I've also seen crosstalk measurements look much different, usually looks kinda like a thd+n vs frequency graph, ill link an example.

Much appreciative of any help.

 

[boXem]

Can someone explain this measurement? Am i reading the graph incorrectly? The distortion is below 130 on the left and right but amir says 140db.

Is that typo or am i just reading this wrong?

Is channel seperation the same thing as crosstalk? I've also seen crosstalk measurements look much different, usually looks kinda like a thd+n vs frequency graph, ill link an example.

Much appreciative of any help.

Channel separation is below 140 dB, not distortion. You see it with the other channel appearing at -140 dB at 1 kHz.
Yes, it's the same à crosstalk

 

[ShiZo]

Channel separation is below 140 dB, not distortion. You see it with the other channel appearing at -140 dB at 1 kHz.
Yes, it's the same à crosstalk

Thank you very much. Any ideas why wolf's measurement is different?

 

[boXem]

Thank you very much. Any reason why wolf's measurement is different?

It is not. - 140 dB @ 1 kHz. But wolf's measurement is a real crosstalk measurement with frequency taken into account

 

[ShiZo]

It is not. - 140 dB @ 1 kHz. But wolf's measurement is a real crosstalk measurement with frequency taken into account

Thank you so much for the info. You learn something new everyday. Now i know why everyone rates crosstalk: db at 1khz lol. I always thought they took the crosstalk vs frequency and choose the number that intersects at 1khz because hearing is more sensitive in this range.

 

[Katji]

why is it wrong for a designer to impart a sound to their product?

It should not be called hi-fi if it was deliberately designed to reduce fidelity.

 

[DeepSpace57]

I have just confirmed that the problem with SMSL M500 where one channel driven causes problems, is NOT an issue for D90SE:

View attachment 136559

As a side-effect, you can see the incredible channel separation of 140 dB!

3rd harmonic takes place on left channel.

 

[Poseidons Voice]

What a great achievement! Now if the major recording studios in the world would listen to their creations off this dac, we might end up getting better recordings to listen to. Hats off to Topping for the best ESS implementation! Wow.

Best,
Anand.

 

[Plcamp]

I have a nagging question about DAC features, and this review causes me to ask…

Why don’t DACs routinely provide a convenience analog in pass through so the unit can remain the last thing in the sq chain instead of routing through a preamp before power amplification?

Maybe I’m the only one thinking this useful?

 

[nhs]

I have a nagging question about DAC features, and this review causes me to ask…

Why don’t DACs routinely provide a convenience analog in pass through so the unit can remain the last thing in the sq chain instead of routing through a preamp before power amplification?

Maybe I’m the only one thinking this useful?

What preamp do you mean? The volume control is implemented by the ESS DAC chip.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I have a nagging question about DAC features, and this review causes me to ask…

Why don’t DACs routinely provide a convenience analog in pass through so the unit can remain the last thing in the sq chain instead of routing through a preamp before power amplification?

Maybe I’m the only one thinking this useful?

Do you mean a input selector?

 

[ceausuc]

Because he can afford it and wants it-same with many of us here. Why does anyone need a car with 700+ HP? Can't use it but many pay dearly to possess cars with that type of performance. Build it and we will buy it. The American Way.

I understand completely your point, pride of ownership is part of most of us.
But... this is supposed to be a science forum. And there is nothing scientific in your explanation!
I understand why you want it. I don't understand why mr. Scince himself is recommending dacs like this one!

 

[nhs]

@JohnYang1997 do you remember my feature request for additional discrete IR codes for power on, power off and available input channels. The D90SE seams to be one of the top notch DAC's currently available, congratulation! But many other companies offer such IR codes for their devices. Oppo did it. Philips, Sonny, Rotel etc. do it. I think such features do not create much more work for your company. It only needs little change in the Software. What do you think, can we expect to have those IR codes in next firmware?

 

[Rottmannash]

I understand completely your point, pride of ownership is part of most of us.
But... this is supposed to be a science forum. And there is nothing scientific in your explanation!
I understand why you want it. I don't understand why mr. Scince himself is recommending dacs like this one!

Because it measures better using scientific instrumentation than any other DAC he's tested.

 

[ceausuc]

What were you doing on Christmas 1985? I can tell you what I was doing. A couple of days before our sales person at the computer company I was working at said we were going to loose a $300,000

So for *me* I would pay the extra money to get the best there is should I be faced with the above two choices. That way I don't have any regrets for the extra few dollars. This has nothing to do whatsoever on what someone else should get as you improperly state. The poster was not asking me for a recommendation for others.

Well, I don't really remember what I was doing on 25.12.1985 but probably I was sleeping. What were you doing on Christmas of 19XX(when you were 10 years old)?

Now.. you've made 300k for your company (and for you). I've been paid, right? I would hate to find out that you were abused by your company ! All this while I was asleep. Fantastic!
What does it mean? That you are smart and I am stupid => I shouldn't question your wisdom. It 's a point view, sure and I will think about it.

But if you are so smart, how did you think that you were asked "what would you buy" as in "what's your favorite color"? and not as in "what should I buy"? That was a very specific question.