Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[mocenigo]

Do you think used as pre-amplifier direct to a power amplifier could works well?

Yes

 

[nhs]

Do you think used as pre-amplifier direct to a power amplifier could works well?

I did so with all DAC's of mine, one thing you have to consider is you can use up to the max output level of the DAC. Otherwise you are throwing your precious bits away.
In many cases you might have to adjust (attenuate) the input level of your power amp to achieve that.

 

[officialsm]

Do you think will plays better d90se or Gustard x26 pro as pre-amp?
Both have xlr output to 5V

 

[John B]

I put in an order for the SE largely because the decision to put the design engineer in a customer facing hobbyist forum. This type of pain must be rewarded. ; )

 

[Slayer]

I put in an order for the SE largely because the decision to put the design engineer in a customer facing hobbyist forum. This type of pain must be rewarded. ; )

John when i click your profile, says you are 117 yrs old. OK, what's your secret ?

 

[John B]

John when i click your profile, says you are 117 yrs old. OK, what's your secret ?

Stress reduction through anonymizing ones digital footprint is the key.

 

[SharpEars]

How does the volume control work on the D90SE? Does it use the DAC chip's internal volume control (digital domain?) or does it do an external volume reduction in circuitry? Also, what are the attenuation steps? 0.5 dB? 1 dB?

Also, since the volume control is defeatable, does having the volume control enabled degrade the output quality (when it is set to zero attenuation)?

 

[jaraheel]

Stress reduction through anonymizing ones digital footprint is the key.

And here I spent 17 years trying to find the elixir of eternal life

 

[steve64]

This is definitely a mature technology. Is there ANY difference in sound quality between -123db and -119db?
Which just happens to be the range of the top twenty measuring DAC's. My HP laptop, plugged into my Mac c-50
preamps DAC section,( via USB), seems to send a pretty good signal to my Mac MC275vi tube amp. Would any of these top measuring DAC's
improve my listening experience? Doesn't seem so. Is there a purpose to a DAC other than to send as unadulterated a signal as possible to a preamp
section, where THEN, if you have the means, the listener can shape the sound that is heard to what is desired? A DAC that imparts a distinctive sound of its own, has been deliberately distorted to please the designer, who then hopes that the potential customer also likes that very same distortion.
This is the dog chasing its own tail!

 

[dpippel]

This is definitely a mature technology. Is there ANY difference in sound quality between -123db and -119db?

Nope.

 

[Rottmannash]

John when i click your profile, says you are 117 yrs old. OK, what's your secret ?

He's Lestat?

 

[slamman]

This is definitely a mature technology. Is there ANY difference in sound quality between -123db and -119db?
Which just happens to be the range of the top twenty measuring DAC's. My HP laptop, plugged into my Mac c-50
preamps DAC section,( via USB), seems to send a pretty good signal to my Mac MC275vi tube amp. Would any of these top measuring DAC's
improve my listening experience? Doesn't seem so. Is there a purpose to a DAC other than to send as unadulterated a signal as possible to a preamp
section, where THEN, if you have the means, the listener can shape the sound that is heard to what is desired? A DAC that imparts a distinctive sound of its own, has been deliberately distorted to please the designer, who then hopes that the potential customer also likes that very same distortion.
This is the dog chasing its own tail!

why is it wrong for a designer to impart a sound to their product? i dont understand the big deal with any coloration being a horrific sin. variety is the spice of life. not the same sounding DAC with slightly better sinad every 6 months. BORING. i appreciete the numbers and than i buy something i actually want and enjoy. also i can pair with a brighter speaker. i have triangle towers that are bright sounding even though they measure pretty flat. so i have a bifrost 2 and tube pre amp and the bright sound it gone and i like it more. if i would just put the latest topping dac it would be quite annoying to listen to. you can say well you have bad speakers or room but i have what i have and this sounds best.

 

[JohnYang1997]

why is it wrong for a designer to impart a sound to their product? i dont understand the big deal with any coloration being a horrific sin. variety is the spice of life. not the same sounding DAC with slightly better sinad every 6 months. BORING. i appreciete the numbers and than i buy something i actually want and enjoy. also i can pair with a brighter speaker. i have triangle towers that are bright sounding even though they measure pretty flat. so i have a bifrost 2 and tube pre amp and the bright sound it gone and i like it more. if i would just put the latest topping dac it would be quite annoying to listen to. you can say well you have bad speakers or room but i have what i have and this sounds best.

Just eq properly. Measure pretty flat doesn't do anything here. Fix the source of the problem.

 

[restorer-john]

why is it wrong for a designer to impart a sound to their product? i dont understand the big deal with any coloration being a horrific sin. variety is the spice of life.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. Speakers have been deliberately voiced by manufacturers since, forever. People buy based on their preferences. All my speakers sound different to one another and it in no way lessens my enjoyment- in fact the opposite is true.

I have zero interest in conforming to somebody's dubious "preference" curve or blindly applying a random person's EQ settings. Measure your gear and decide what it needs, in your room, with your equipment.

 

[slamman]

as you see i got both sides as 2 different responses to my statement. if we could create harmony or at least understanding between those 2 worlds however close they may seem a lot of this audio drama would go away. either it is wrong to have color or "distortion", and better specs is better sound and there is no budging on that, or sometimes you want more gravy on your potatoes than "normal" and thats ok. i think both are ok and valid i wish others felt the same. i know this forum doesnt see things this way but this DAC is so far into specs i wonder if im the only one who likes powdered sugar on my pancakes and not with EQ, i want it all the time and i want it from the designer of the product. without taking anything away from measurements of course. you dont want something to be broken or badly engineered. as the d90se clearly is not. it seems smsl and topping dacs are the pancake and the opinion of the forum is that the toppings should only be added with EQ or headphones. and i gluttonously state why not have it all? and switch gear if you need to change. =) i do not find the average EQ to give the same sound as tubes or certain designs. obviously for a simple set up you need 1 set of gear and maybe my style would not work in which case yes get linear gear and EQ.@restorer-john

 

[JohnYang1997]

as you see i got both sides as 2 different responses to my statement. if we could create harmony or at least understanding between those 2 worlds however close they may seem a lot of this audio drama would go away. either it is wrong to have color or "distortion", and better specs is better sound and there is no budging on that, or sometimes you want more gravy on your potatoes than "normal" and thats ok. i think both are ok and valid i wish others felt the same. i know this forum doesnt see things this way but this DAC is so far into specs i wonder if im the only one who likes powdered sugar on my pancakes and not with EQ, i want it all the time and i want it from the designer of the product. without taking anything away from measurements of course. you dont want something to be broken or badly engineered. as the d90se clearly is not. it seems smsl and topping dacs are the pancake and the opinion of the forum is that the toppings should only be added with EQ or headphones. and i gluttonously state why not have it all? and switch gear if you need to change. =) i do not find the average EQ to give the same sound as tubes or certain designs. obviously for a simple set up you need 1 set of gear and maybe my style would not work in which case yes get linear gear and EQ.@restorer-john

No.
There's also nothing wrong inherently putting sound into products(electronics). It will just be coloration, perhaps distortion etc. Selling those product with customers knowing what they are is fine. It's basically crime to me for those product to claim, resolving, transparent, clean etc.

The thing is with your method you make decisions by listening the component with other colored components and you can make mistakes doing so. And then you have to try out different components to make another mistake to correct the previous mistake. Essentially as the other person said, chasing your own tail. You don't know where the goal is. You can say I'm enjoying it so I reach the goal. Are you certain this is the sound you want or the best with your budget? Or you simply don't want to spend the time or simply don't care too much, it's good enough is good enough.

Using the other method, basically you know what part is right, what isn't and what can be improved. And you can precisely know what your preference is and adjust accordingly. This method does not prohibit coloration. That's the part of the misunderstanding. Based on science you can spend the least amount of money that you know won't be the limitation of the system and put most effort making the weakest point better. Maybe you can call this method deliberate, or active or something like that. Efficient, everything is clear, you know what you are getting.

 

[amirm]

why is it wrong for a designer to impart a sound to their product?

Nothing if they state that is what it does, show measurements of it, and it was something they intended to design. What is wrong is building something based on stuff they have read, write marketing stuff saying it does this and that to music without any such intention or truth to it.

 

[voodooless]

What’s wrong buying an original painting, then changing the frame. Next going over with a brush to change to colors. And then finally put it in a badly lit room to show off your handy work to others

 

[amirm]

it seems smsl and topping dacs are the pancake and the opinion of the forum is that the toppings should only be added with EQ or headphones.

Remember, when we say non-performant devices color the sound, we are being super generous. Most of the time they just screw up the sound and rely on typical audiophile have such poor listening acuity as to not notice. And that they can be influenced with stories of what the device is doing than reality. Oh this device is more analog like. Oh really? Where is the proof of that? Just because you added noise and distortion to the audio path, it doesn't mean that you managed such especially when there is no such phenomena.

Anyway, this is a thread about Topping D90SE. Any generic arguments like that belongs elsewhere.

 

[amirm]

I have just confirmed that the problem with SMSL M500 where one channel driven causes problems, is NOT an issue for D90SE:

As a side-effect, you can see the incredible channel separation of 140 dB!