Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[PacoRabbane]

I know you're new here and you seem a little averse to learning but how did it escape your notice that there are more than two people in any given thread?

but what are you talking about?

 

[JEntwistle]

I'm happy to say that our production units have the t. So no worries.

One of the benefits of letting folks here check over the preproduction version for defects.

 

[JohnYang1997]

One of the benefits of letting folks here check over the preproduction version for defects.

We already found the issue before production. First batch of production units are all shipped out. I just didn't know the detail of the issue.

 

[Matias]

It’s just way, way harder to make superb amp for little money. Either the designs are licensed, like Hypex or Purifi, or closed. So you’ll need to come up with something on your own. With DAC’s it’s much easier: the performance is known upfront, it’s just a matter of unlocking that potential.

Check out SMSL VMV A2:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...smsl-sa300-infineon-class-d.12210/post-802800

 

[JEntwistle]

We already found the issue before production. First batch of production units are all shipped out. I just didn't know the detail of the issue.

Oh, good to know. Can we get a photo of the PCB to review for typos (just kidding)?

BTW, I want to add my congratulations. I know you were a contributor here before you joined Topping. It is nice to see your expertise and effort on display in such an impressive device.

 

[Mattx]

Then let them. I'm not against it. Just I won't be the one that shares it.

Ok, however Topping did release pictures of the internals for D70s and D90 why did they do that if they are not supportive of it ?

What changed between then and now ?

 

[WolfX-700]

Ok, however Topping did release pictures of the internals for D70s and D90 why did they do that if they are not supportive of it ?

What changed between then and now ?

My personal understanding of John Yang 1997’s unwillingness to provide internal photos. If I encounter some discussions similar to the previous ones (such as unfounded accusations that he used the "wrong" OPAMP on the D90se), and other worse encounters (the circuit design is plagiarized). I also choose not to provide internal photos - at least it will make me feel better.

 

[threni]

My personal understanding of John Yang 1997’s unwillingness to provide internal photos. If I encounter some discussions similar to the previous ones (such as unfounded accusations that he used the "wrong" OPAMP on the D90se), and other worse encounters (the circuit design is plagiarized). I also choose not to provide internal photos - at least it will make me feel better.

Given that someone accused him of forgery because of a typo on the certification mock-up there's no limit to what they'll get wrong with a high-res photo!

 

[Katji]

Yes, well, be aware that this is not just the internet, it is an audiophile forum, there is often some psycho behaviour around.

 

[jtwrace]

Is there an ASR group buy discount available?

 

[nhs]

My personal understanding of John Yang 1997’s unwillingness to provide internal photos. If I encounter some discussions similar to the previous ones (such as unfounded accusations that he used the "wrong" OPAMP on the D90se), and other worse encounters (the circuit design is plagiarized). I also choose not to provide internal photos - at least it will make me feel better.

He can email me and then I share it here for all. Promised, I won't tell any one whom I received the picture from.

 

[tmtomh]

Yes, well, be aware that this is not just the internet, it is an audiophile forum, there is often some psycho behaviour around.

I find this place notably less psycho than a lot of other internet discussion sites.

 

[HiFidFan]

Initially I found this thread/discussion interesting, then it quickly degraded into a troll fest.

*sigh*

Great review @amirm. Thanks.

 

[infinitesymphony]

I'm sorry but there is something I just don't understand...
If you say that all those dacs are transparent and sound the same why would you even recommend the d90se(for instance)?
Why isn't the conclusion of your review some thing like:
"I don't recommend this dac since you can get other dacs with the same features and 'way too transparent' for 400$ less. Go spend this money for speakers or... charity".

As far as we know this is the best performing DAC ever, and for some people that's worth something even though we're past the threshold of audibility.

Historically, this is cheap for owning the "best" of something, especially with independent measurement confirmation.

Consider the GTE Trinity DAC, which 15 years ago cost upwards of $55,000 and included either 16 or 32 Burr-Brown PCM1704 chips. Was it ever properly tested beyond what was in the brochure? Who knows.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/tas-at-rmaf-robert-harley-on-upper-end-electronics-1

"For starters, the three-chassis Trinity DAC employs 16 Burr-Brown PCM 1704 DACs per channel that are driven by a time-interleaved signal. That is, each DAC is driven by an input signal that has been delayed slightly in relation to the preceding DAC. The DAC outputs are all switched together, resulting in an analog output waveform in which the classic stair-step structure is much finer, smoother, and closer in shape to the original sine wave. In fact, the waveform is so smooth that the Trinity DAC allows you to bypass the digital filter entirely when playing high-resolution sources (three selectable filters are available for standard-resolution sources). The measurements presented in the brochure are the best I’ve seen on any DAC."

 

[AdamG]

Initially I found this thread/discussion interesting, then it quickly degraded into a troll fest.

*sigh*

Great review @amirm. Thanks.

Please Report any other possible Trolls you believe we may have missed. We rely on members reporting problems to us. So your assistance is crucial to maintaining a civil, respectful and constructive conversation. I agree the thread got out of control. It happens because we try to let’s conversations run their course and mostly the Senior members will jump in and call out the Trolls. Agreed this approach does not always work. The option is more aggressive Moderation and that causes it’s own problems.

 

[welsh]

Outstanding! Many congratulations, John Yang !

On a more general note: I can't prevent admiring how China is surpassing us, Westerners. You guys have the future ! Go on doing cutting-edge job like this!

Gosh! This device performs even better than the superb TotalDac and PS Audio Directstream!

 

[JEntwistle]

Given that someone accused him of forgery because of a typo on the certification mock-up there's no limit to what they'll get wrong with a high-res photo!

Yep.

He is a member here, and he has essentially volunteered to answer questions. I think it's fair to ask once, but then let's accept his answer when he says no.

 

[Mulder]

Please Report any other possible Trolls you believe we may have missed. We rely on members reporting problems to us. So your assistance is crucial to maintaining a civil, respectful and constructive conversation. I agree the thread got out of control. It happens because we try to let’s conversations run their course and mostly the Senior members will jump in and call out the Trolls. Agreed this approach does not always work. The option is more aggressive Moderation and that causes it’s own problems.

It is not so much about trolls anymore I think, it is more like it is very much of topic. I hope some memebers of the forum soon get their hands on this DAC and can give us some info about its performance and functionality or about any issues it may have.

 

[welsh]

i agree with you. Muse OP amps and burson OP amps sound much different. im sure they lower performance but they 100% change the sound in a way i prefer. "warmer" sound im sure its measureable distortion or something. yes you and i are on the wrong forum but i do enjoy the info on here but my opinion isnt invalidated because someone says "do a double blind test or i dont believe you " its not important to me if someone else doesnt believe me. thousands of other people hear the same thing as me and thats all that matters. if something sounds better to me which makes me happy. who cares what your analyzer says about it? it made me happy.

The TotalDac apparently makes its buyers happy. And the ‘thousands of people’ who hear the same thing as you have all read the same gushing subjectivist reviews.

 

[F1308]

Does anyone know if the Bluetooth implemented in Topping D90SE will have a lag low enough (say under 40 or 30 ms) to allow playing live music from a keyboard, please ?