I just went on a rant about this about two posts up. Apparently Topping used a cs8416 digital receiver that is “not compatible” with quite a few sacd/Blu-ray players, televisions, HDMI audio extractors and other devices that are capable of (that is, designed to) transmit digital output via S/PDIF connections like the optical and coax inputs on the D90se. Page back to around mid-July on this thread to read more details about it—but don’t expect to find a solution.I just bought the Topping D90se and was curious if anyone figured out what is causing the audio drop outs with optical and LG C9 OLED, If I feed the optical audio through my OPPO 205 to the D90se it works great.
I guess something had to suffer due to the (unnecessary) focus on those "all important" SINAD numbers..........I just went on a rant about this about two posts up. Apparently Topping used a cs8416 digital receiver that is “not compatible” with quite a few sacd/Blu-ray players, televisions, HDMI audio extractors and other devices that are capable of (that is, designed to) transmit digital output via S/PDIF connections like the optical and coax inputs on the D90se. Page back to around mid-July on this thread to read more details about it—but don’t expect to find a solution.
Apparently there has been no fix since that conversation five months ago, since Topping hasn’t released any firmware updates on the D90se since it launched. And from what I can suss out from the designer (who posted many responses during the discussion) there may be no fix possible with this major issue due to the limitations of the hardware they chose for the build.
I guess something had to suffer due to the (unnecessary) focus on those "all important" SINAD numbers..........
I just went on a rant about this about two posts up. Apparently Topping used a cs8416 digital receiver that is “not compatible” with quite a few sacd/Blu-ray players, televisions, HDMI audio extractors and other devices that are capable of (that is, designed to) transmit digital output via S/PDIF connections like the optical and coax inputs on the D90se. Page back to around mid-July on this thread to read more details about it—but don’t expect to find a solution.
Apparently there has been no fix since that conversation five months ago, since Topping hasn’t released any firmware updates on the D90se since it launched.
You can’t. But the problem still exists and it’s affecting a significant number of people. And the DAC chip has nothing to do with the digital receiver they chose—plenty of ES9038pro DACs handle these receiver handshakes just fine. I know because I own one and have tested it compared to the Topping.Well that's a bit tone deaf. The issue being that the "better" digital receivers are 100% unavailable due to the AKM factory fire. All too easy to read reviews 'but my 4-5 year old Oppo has no such issues' there WAS no factory fire nor corona situation on supply chain back then.
How exactly do you presume you make a digital receiver to perform better with a simple firmware update?
Well that's a bit tone deaf. The issue being that the "better" digital receivers are 100% unavailable due to the AKM factory fire. All too easy to read reviews 'but my 4-5 year old Oppo has no such issues' there WAS no factory fire nor corona situation on supply chain back then.
How exactly do you presume you make a digital receiver to perform better with a simple firmware update?
Yeah that's true. The jitter rejection with superb results Topping have made, seems to only work with the 'better' s/pdif outputs. It would be an improvement if it had some kind of locking strength setting, but I suppose they don't want to compromise on that (?)You can’t. But the problem still exists and it’s affecting a significant number of people. And the DAC chip has nothing to do with the digital receiver they chose—plenty of ES9038pro DACs handle these receiver handshakes just fine. I know because I own one and have tested it compared to the Topping.
I do believe it is something like that though. But maybe we are presuming too much. @JohnYang1997 is not as active on this forum anymore to respond to these kind of small questions, unfortunately. I suppose he's working on other stuff rather than reading forumsEDIT: I've seen it hypothesized that drop outs are related to too low of DPLL bandwidth in an attempt to achieve better jitter rejection but this does not quite make sense as it seems like it would be an easy firmware update to allow for user selectable DPLL bandwidth to solve this.
Yeah that's true. The jitter rejection with superb results Topping have made, seems to only work with the 'better' s/pdif outputs. It would be an improvement if it had some kind of locking strength setting, but I suppose they don't want to compromise on that (?)
I do believe it is something like that though. But maybe we are presuming too much. @JohnYang1997 is not as active on this forum anymore to respond to these kind of small questions, unfortunately. I suppose he's working on other stuff rather than reading forums
I don’t think they can resolve the issue due to their choice of receiver components and the way the S/PDIF transports were designed. Which basically renders the optical and coax inputs to be severely limited in what they can handshake with—including a significant number of TVs, blu-ray and SACD players, and perhaps most importantly, HDMI audio extractors which a lot of audiophile folks use to play their SACD discs (or even Redbook CDs!) through the DAC.John has actually specifically commented in this thread saying it was not related to DPLL bandwidth here:
Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)
I would take a shot and say it's could just interplay with your other component. I noticed this with my rme back in the day. My cheaper dac had a better soundstage. I always guessed maybe the other is just exaggerating the soundstage. If a dac has better numbers across the board, even...www.audiosciencereview.com
Needless to say his response(s) do not give much confidence they understand how to solve the issue.
Michael
I’m not sure I agree that the discovery that the S/PDIF inputs on the DAC are severely compromised in their function qualifies as “small questions”—there are a significant number of folks who count on their DACs to handshake with their TVs, Blu-ray and SACD players and HDMI extractors. There are many, many threads about this utilization all over this board and many others…Yeah that's true. The jitter rejection with superb results Topping have made, seems to only work with the 'better' s/pdif outputs. It would be an improvement if it had some kind of locking strength setting, but I suppose they don't want to compromise on that (?)
I do believe it is something like that though. But maybe we are presuming too much. @JohnYang1997 is not as active on this forum anymore to respond to these kind of small questions, unfortunately. I suppose he's working on other stuff rather than reading forums
USB is the easiest and most common.Thanks, Could you advise which is the best way to connect this DAC using a laptop computer with say Tidal as a streaming source?
I bought the new SMSL DO200 DAC to try out. One of the new features it has is DPLL settings. I've seen online reviews where they specifically said this has allowed them to use the DO200 with older CD players & TVs whereas their D90SE would cut out every 3-5 seconds. I have not personally tried it on my Samsung TVs yet as this DAC will only be used in a desktop environment via USB. It wouldn't surprise me to see new Topping DACs implement these similar features in their future productsI don’t think they can resolve the issue due to their choice of receiver components and the way the S/PDIF transports were designed. Which basically renders the optical and coax inputs to be severely limited in what they can handshake with—including a significant number of TVs, blu-ray and SACD players, and perhaps most importantly, HDMI audio extractors which a lot of audiophile folks use to play their SACD discs (or even Redbook CDs!) through the DAC.
In my view this is a significant limitation for this otherwise stellar DAC, and I found John’s responses to be unnecessarily defensive, deceptive, deflective and on occasion downright condescending and hostile. It’s like his feelings got hurt because affected buyers actually paused for a moment from giving high-fives to his SINAD numbers…
Do you have an idea about its i2S configuration? If not it will be a big draw of luck if it will be compatible with the D90SE pin-out.And here’s the link to the HDMI to i2S audio extractor I have yet to test out—it’s on its way. Purportedly it will de-embed audio from the HDMI signal and connect to the Topping via its i2S port—and the description alleges that it will transport DSD over DOP via this connection. If this works, it would be a panacea obviously. I saw a review of it on a separate audiophile forum that raved about its performance.
I guess I’ll find out!Do you have an idea about its i2S configuration? If not it will be a big draw of luck if it will be compatible with the D90SE pin-out.
According to some research I did on this device before I bought it, I’ve found several sources that had success with it, and it’s compatible with the iFi iPower X 5V adapter I already own. If it allows me to access DSD over DOP and works with the Topping, that would be an answer to my prayers well above my expectations! As I’ve already mentioned the Kanex Pro unit I have now is getting me 176.4 kHz extracted from HDMI and it truly sounds spectacular with the Topping and only cost me $89.Do you have an idea about its i2S configuration? If not it will be a big draw of luck if it will be compatible with the D90SE pin-out.
I believe the fourth I2S mode is the one PS Audio uses, so "DSDR" mode.Here’s one experience with the HDMI to i2S de-embedded from the PS Audio forums, using the same Blu Ray/SACD player I’m using…
It Works ! - Sony UBP-X1000ES HDMI "Audio" output to Chinese I2S Adapter Board to DS Sr. I2S Input
Ordered this from China, and with a high current 5VDC Power Supply I had laying in box, sweeter audio quality was easily audible. Separating the CLK/Data signals is definitely the best way to listen to Digital Audio. Temporarily had to remove the S/PDIF (RCA) cable because the I2S PCB has a...forum.psaudio.com
You are not alone... and I may add a 3rd member with the same issue, found in another topic: see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...adphone-amp-review.13379/page-90#post-1006506. Sorry for coming late, but I just bought it. Please also check my second post for details: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...adphone-amp-review.13379/page-90#post-1006891Anyone notice a crackling noise from a tweeter when the D90SE switches the bit rate or frequency between songs, also noticeable when switching inputs? This can be more or less noticeable depending on the system, for example I can barely hear it in my Benchmark system but pretty noticeable when connected directly to a Purifi amp. I just received my DAC and it’s my first Topping product so I’m not sure if it‘s normal, but I think it bothers me enough to return it.
In my case it does not depend on the player app only: I have the same issue at bit-rate change, but only when D90se is connected to W10 PC working as Roon core via USB, while there is no noise if D90se is fed the same Roon music (Qobuz or FLAC library doesn't matter) via a Bluesound Node2i . Another member is using Audirvana (see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...adphone-amp-review.13379/page-89#post-1005700).I can get coupons. You need some?
Such poping noise should at 100% depend of your player app.
Mine was doing the same thing. It's because you're using it as a preamp. If you set it to dac mode and use a separate preamp it doesn't do that. I'm using a pre90 with no problems anymore. Kind of a sucky deal tho.In my case it does not depend on the player app only: I have the same issue at bit-rate change, but only when D90se is connected to W10 PC working as Roon core via USB, while there is no noise if D90se is fed the same Roon music (Qobuz or FLAC library doesn't matter) via a Bluesound Node2i . Another member is using Audirvana (see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...adphone-amp-review.13379/page-89#post-1005700).