Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[JohnYang1997]

May I ask, just out of curiosity, what volume control method the D90SE is using?

Like Pre90 is analog, it's probably a ladder-resistor system with relays/multiplexer or similar to make the switching between the resistors. (And possibly using impedance boosting or something in the end of the chain to overcome as much dynamic loss as possible, by making output impedance the same across all volume steps)
Most DACs use digital volume attenuation, which is "lossy". If you turn it reaaaally down, you use some detail, since you are lessening/decreasing bit depth.
There are some other DACs, which use a hybrid solution, by having a couple of larger steps in the analog domain, switched via relays, and compensating the smaller steps with digital attenuation in between. This, in theory, is also lossy", but usually no human ear hears 1 or 2 bits of decrease in the digital domain, ever in real life. (And it's never more than that, since then the relays kick in, and switch to the next bigger step.)

Now the question is, which of these three does Topping use in their D90SE?

It doesn't really matter. What matters is the noise floor at the output. 1.3uV is probably close to SOTA of how preamp goes. Pre90 is 0.6uV and LA4/HPA4 is 1.9uV. There's no "lossless" or "lossy" about preamps and whatnot. Analogue preamps can preserve SNR of the upstream component better but that's only when itself has lower noise. 99%+ if not more preamps will be degrading performance paring with D90se.

 

[JohnYang1997]

D90SE has a 5.2 volt 100ohm output vs 4v 300ohm for Gustard and 4volt 200ohm for the Soncoz.
When you have a low gain amp with relatively low input impedance, as in my case, the lower impedance and higher voltage could make a big difference.

Edit: I would also consider Schiit Modius at $199 as a just a DAC before considering either the Gustart or Soncoz. Sure having a sinad of 113-115 is still transparent.

Don't forget D10 balanced.

 

[kukocz]

Don't forget D10 balanced.

If one need a pure dac and uses usb input only - D10b is hard to beat.

 

[nelamvr6]

@JohnYang1997, I am currently running my D90SE connected to my power amp directly via balanced interconnects, using the DAC in preamp mode and controlling volume via the DAC. I think it sounds amazing.

In your opinion, would running my DAC in DAC mode and connecting to a Pre90 via balanced interconnects and then to my power amp via balanced interconnects improve sound quality?

I am not overly concerned with using digital volume control as I am now, but if I can achieve improvement by using analog volume control via the Pre90 I would at least consider it.

 

[gags11]

Don't forget D10 balanced.

In my case, I need an AES input. Otherwise, it is really hard to beat the Topping D10 if you just need usb.

 

[Eddy H.]

@JohnYang1997, I am currently running my D90SE connected to my power amp directly via balanced interconnects, using the DAC in preamp mode and controlling volume via the DAC. I think it sounds amazing.

In your opinion, would running my DAC in DAC mode and connecting to a Pre90 via balanced interconnects and then to my power amp via balanced interconnects improve sound quality?

I am not overly concerned with using digital volume control as I am now, but if I can achieve improvement by using analog volume control via the Pre90 I would at least consider it.

I feel like the pre90 improved the dynamics of my system. I also like the ability to switch between xlrs and rcas with the remote instead of having to go into the menu of the dac. That's a pain to me.

 

[rlwings]

I feel like the pre90 improved the dynamics of my system. I also like the ability to switch between xlrs and rcas with the remote instead of having to go into the menu of the dac. That's a pain to me.

XLR to RCA switching is possible on the D90SE's remote too.

 

[nelamvr6]

I feel like the pre90 improved the dynamics of my system. I also like the ability to switch between xlrs and rcas with the remote instead of having to go into the menu of the dac. That's a pain to me.

Thanks for your input, but one can switch between inputs and between outputs via the remote. I'm not sure who started spreading misinformation about having to go into the setup menu to do this, but you don't have to.

To switch between outputs simply press the center of the remote's circular array. To switch between inputs, press the left and right arrows of the same array.

As for improving dynamics, that's the kind of subjective observation that is difficult to prove conclusively, especially since directly comparing A/B with a different setup can be hard to arrange. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not sure that would justify the extra expense. Especially since I don't notice any deficiency in my dynamics with my current mode of listening.

 

[Rottmannash]

Don't forget D10 balanced.

Which I just bought-works as advertised and is transparent.

 

[Eddy H.]

Thanks for your input, but one can switch between inputs and between outputs via the remote. I'm not sure who started spreading misinformation about having to go into the setup menu to do this, but you don't have to.

To switch between outputs simply press the center of the remote's circular array. To switch between inputs, press the left and right arrows of the same array.

As for improving dynamics, that's the kind of subjective observation that is difficult to prove conclusively, especially since directly comparing A/B with a different setup can be hard to arrange. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not sure that would justify the extra expense. Especially since I don't notice any deficiency in my dynamics with my current mode of listening.

Thanks for the info! Guess I missed that.

 

[Eddy H.]

Thanks for your input, but one can switch between inputs and between outputs via the remote. I'm not sure who started spreading misinformation about having to go into the setup menu to do this, but you don't have to.

To switch between outputs simply press the center of the remote's circular array. To switch between inputs, press the left and right arrows of the same array.

As for improving dynamics, that's the kind of subjective observation that is difficult to prove conclusively, especially since directly comparing A/B with a different setup can be hard to arrange. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not sure that would justify the extra expense. Especially since I don't notice any deficiency in my dynamics with my current mode of listening.

What is the input impedance of your amplifier? I'm thinking that if the amp has an impedance on the lower side the pre90 might have a bigger difference.

 

[nelamvr6]

What is the input impedance of your amplifier? I'm thinking that if the amp has an impedance on the lower side the pre90 might have a bigger difference.

The specs of my power amp say input impedance is 100kΩ

 

[Eddy H.]

The specs of my power amp say input impedance is 100kΩ

Mine says 50k. That might make a difference. Idk

 

[nelamvr6]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a Pre90. I figure I can increase my XLR output to 5v and increase my SINAD to 125db, and also regain a volume knob, which I have a strong preference for.

 

[Rat Salad]

I have had the D90Se in my system for a few weeks now. It replaced a A&K Kann Cube in DAC mode connected via XLR into my Freya+.

Using the Topping with set up as below, the highs at times sound very digital almost like you can hear pixels( sorry that's about the best I can describe it). Now I find my Kann super revealing and neutral both with headphones and using the XLR out, but I don't get this sound out of the top end. Anyone else noting this?

BTW not getting this from CD player when connected director Freya but when I use the topping has the decoder for the CD player via coax I am getting their high-end Distortion again

D90se set up
In:
- USB from W10 laptop and Android
- D90se recognized by all sources 44.1
- Flac library
Settings:
- XLR only
- 4v
- BT off
- DAC MODE
- tried all 7 filters
Out:
-XLR
- Freya+ (tried all three stages)
- dual Vidars mono
- monitor silver 100 speakers

 

[Sisay]

I have had the D90Se in my system for a few weeks now. It replaced a A&K Kann Cube in DAC mode connected via XLR into my Freya+.

yes, I described it as a strange distortion, that's why I gave up yesterday and returned to the aged music streamer II

 

[nelamvr6]

I have had the D90Se in my system for a few weeks now. It replaced a A&K Kann Cube in DAC mode connected via XLR into my Freya+.

Using the Topping with set up as below, the highs at times sound very digital almost like you can hear pixels( sorry that's about the best I can describe it). Now I find my Kann super revealing and neutral both with headphones and using the XLR out, but I don't get this sound out of the top end. Anyone else noting this?

BTW not getting this from CD player when connected director Freya but when I use the topping has the decoder for the CD player via coax I am getting their high-end Distortion again

D90se set up
In:
- USB from W10 laptop and Android
- D90se recognized by all sources 44.1
- Flac library
Settings:
- XLR only
- 4v
- BT off
- DAC MODE
- tried all 7 filters
Out:
-XLR
- Freya+ (tried all three stages)
- dual Vidars mono
- monitor silver 100 speakers

I have not noticed anything similar.

 

[Victor BR]

Anyone using the DAC D90SE with the steaming SD9?

 

[Eddy H.]

I have had the D90Se in my system for a few weeks now. It replaced a A&K Kann Cube in DAC mode connected via XLR into my Freya+.

Using the Topping with set up as below, the highs at times sound very digital almost like you can hear pixels( sorry that's about the best I can describe it). Now I find my Kann super revealing and neutral both with headphones and using the XLR out, but I don't get this sound out of the top end. Anyone else noting this?

BTW not getting this from CD player when connected director Freya but when I use the topping has the decoder for the CD player via coax I am getting their high-end Distortion again

D90se set up
In:
- USB from W10 laptop and Android
- D90se recognized by all sources 44.1
- Flac library
Settings:
- XLR only
- 4v
- BT off
- DAC MODE
- tried all 7 filters
Out:
-XLR
- Freya+ (tried all three stages)
- dual Vidars mono
- monitor silver 100 speakers

Do you have the latest Topping driver installed on your computer? Version 5.20. If not that could be the problem.

 

[Rat Salad]

Yes.. I should have included that info