Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[b4nt]

Dude needs his ears checked if he thinks bifrost 2 sounds like topping d90se. Bifrost 2 was so fatiguing to me.

All 3 DACs may be good. Technologies are totally different. One is human selected R2R network, one is Analog Device 18 bits D to A converter, Topping is build around ES9038Pro. The last one probably being the best in "noises" reproduction, the other "filtering" some out?

 

[JohnYang1997]

All 3 DACs may be good. Technologies are totally different. One is human selected R2R network, one is Analog Device 18 bits D to A converter, Topping is build around ES9038Pro. The last one probably being the best in "noises" reproduction, the other "filtering" some out?

R2R dac only adds small signal nonlinearities and high order harmonics as well as IMD.

 

[b4nt]

R2R dac only adds small signal nonlinearities and high order harmonics as well as IMD.

What does this all add to a random unexpected noise in track like such one?

I think the Topping would basically reproduce this.

 

[JohnYang1997]

What does this all add to a random unexpected noise in track like such one?

I think the Topping would basically reproduce this.

They all are going to reproduce these somewhat or they will have distortion higher than 5% or has severe high frequency roll off.

 

[b4nt]

Then back to the video. Why does he compare DACs on such improbable noises reproduction, not on audio, like on instruments sounds?

 

[ShiZo]

Then back to the video. Why does he compare DACs on such improbable noises reproduction, not on audio, like on instruments sounds?

Because he's not informed to put it bluntly. He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about and that's coming from someone who doesn't know much about audio. But I know enough to know that I don't know a lot either.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I am forced to turn off the amplifier before the DAC.
Can you tell me the reason why both when the TOPPING is turned on and off, some waves are emitted which can damage the speakers?

How loud is it? In the testing, there's very little dc which shouldn't cause any issue.

 

[JohnYang1997]

it is quite noisy, around 20db

As you describe it as noisy, is it not a small pop noise?
What's the gain of your power amplifier?

 

[JohnYang1997]

@amirm Is it possible to graphically report the output noise when the DAC is switched on / off?

Turning on and off using rare switching directly is not our normal operation condition. Turn-on is 50-100uV, turn-off is a bit high at 2mV. But nothing too crazy. Definitely would not damage speakers or anything like that.

Turning on and off using front button or remote shows no noise. 1uV flat

 

[Arnas]

I like how many audiofools like Non transparent amps and r2r dacs.
While listening many flawed speakers or headphones, worse dacs and amps dont show as much weakness as on transparent gear.
My hd800S sounds worse on A90 than on Violectric v280 because it dont have dont have same transparency or attack, but when i eq My HD800S to have spot on tonal balance it sounds much better with A90 no question.

 

[Sasha1987]

Hi, first time write here. I can’t find a satisfying answer on : What CPLD Altera max II do for DAC performance ( for example D70s, D90SE and many other) ? As I understand this CPLD do following functions:
1 - choose which oscillator to use between 2, for family 44.1 or 48
2 – divide oscillator frequency by integer if the dac chip require lower frequency masterclock
3 - dejitter bitclock lrclock dataclock in respect to masterclock
4 - select IIS input (usb xmos chip, spdif chip, IIs diferential, BT chip)
In case of AKM dac chip we don’t need function nr. 3 because AKM require only synchronization of master, bit, lr and data witch is already after XMOS IIS output for example, as they are synchronized the performance depends only on the quality of master clock. The function 1 and 4 can be done not only by this CPLD. The function nr 2 can be omitted if we use lower frequency oscillators 22…., 24….Mhz that can work for all sample rate instead of 45…. and 49….mhz. So here considering if this are functions of CPLD (I don’ t know exactly what functions are) there is no need for this CPLD.
In case off ESS dac chip that is for example here in D90se , I think they use ESS in asynchronous mode (100mhz near dac chip) that don’t care of high frequency phase noise of IIS input because using internal digital PLL ( with bandwidth selected by manufacturer) that would eliminate the need of this CPLD, but maybe the performance of this PLL is not superb and it is better to dejitter IIS input with CPLD but only if those near CPLD oscillators has better phase noise performance at lower frequency then 100mhz oscillator near dac chip that must have low phase noise at higher fr.
So what is the reason manufacturer chose CPLD? What are functions of this? ( the functions that I wrote are my imagination that does not explain the need of this CPLD). I know in this forum are experts and even manufacturer that could help to put some light on this. Thank you.

 

[JohnYang1997]

SPECIFICATION
Power Output: Minimum sine wave continuous average power output per channel, with both channels operating is: 150 watts into 4 ohm load
Output Load Impedance: 4 ohms
Rated Power Band: 20Hz to 20,000Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.005% maximum harmonic distortion at any power level from 250 milliwatts to rated power, 20Hz to 20,000Hz
Dynamic Headroom: 2dB
Frequency Response: +0, -0.25dB from 20Hz to 20,000Hz; +0, -3.0dB from 10Hz to 100,000Hz
Input Sensitivity (for rated output): 2.4 Volts Balanced; 1.2 Volts Unbalanced
Signal To Noise Ratio (A-Weighted): 95dB Balanced (118dB below rated output); 93dB Unbalanced (115dB below rated output)
Intermodulation Distortion: 0.005% maximum, if the instantaneous peak power output does not exceed twice the rated power output for any combination of frequencies from 20Hz to 20,000Hz.
Wide Band Damping Factor: Greater than 40
Input Impedance: 22,000 ohms Balanced; 22,000 ohms Unbalanced
Voltage Gain: 26dB, 4 ohms
Power Guard: Less than 2% Total Harmonic Distortion with up to a 14dB overdrive signal
Power Control Input: 5-15VDC, less than 1mA
Power Control Output: 12VDC, 50mA maximum Output is delayed 0.2 seconds from turn On

26dB gain should give 40mV at the output. Audible but not remotely close to damaging speakers.
That said, I recommend using the front panel button or remote control to turn on or off the dac. Or maybe just leave it on.

 

[Vini darko]

I'm sorry but I have to contradict you, switching on and off always generates a loud noise. I'm not talking about the action on the rear switch, but just using the remote control or the front panel. I also find that they are normal operating conditions, which are repeated several times a day, so it would be nice to show the behavior of the DAC isn't it?

It's good practice to always turn poweramps on last and off first because of this potential issue.

 

[auronthas]

He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about and that's coming from someone who doesn't know much about audio.

That's exactly his name "Cheap" Audio Man

 

[JohnYang1997]

I'm sorry but I have to contradict you, switching on and off always generates a loud noise. I'm not talking about the action on the rear switch, but just using the remote control or the front panel. I also find that they are normal operating conditions, which are repeated several times a day, so it would be nice to show the behavior of the DAC isn't it?

That doesn't seem normal. Because the outputs are always disconnected first before any other operations. So it's by design no going to have pop.

 

[Veri]

now I understand the low price of these products and the lack of willingness of testers to carry out tests that may embarrass the producers who are sponsored here.

That's a little uncalled for. You can freely post about anything that may embarrass anyone, even better if you can point out issues.. But yes I believe John is indicating your DAC maybe faulty :/

 

[threni]

do you find it out of place?
it appears that some devices are solely designed to be top ranked on certain tests.

the actual performance in everyday use cases is never shown and if further information is requested, the answer is always NO

So you're saying the the testing here is incompetently performed, and is not indicative of the "actual performance", and these and other tests are performed badly deliberately so that it doesn't affect "sponsorship"? What sponsorship would that be then? And which tests would you suggest be performed so that they reflect "actual performance". I'd hate to be wasting my time reading reviews of equipment which measures really well but sounds bad.

 

[Plcamp]

A question about “transparent” DACs…

Assume Amir tests two DACs from different manufacturers and concludes they both meet all transparency criteria (such as 115 dB SINAD

Could those two DACs be fed the same signal, and the difference between outputs compared real time by the test equipment?

That would be a pretty definitive proof of exactly what transparency means?

 

[JohnYang1997]

just read my posts, and see what data I asked to publish.
the answer was negative for everyone, strange isn't it?

huh? You want graph I can post graph. I just didn't feel the need to. I just measured it when I gave you the numbers. Do you want to see the measurements? I can measure it for you again.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Also what's the "loud noise". It feels weird because most of the time people describe is as pop. What kind of noise do you hear?