Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[mocenigo]

Looks like the imaging that has shown up in some MQA files.

Maybe. But this is a SONY recording, I do not think they do MQA.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Opamps put it circuits designed for different opamps can sound different, but it's very easy to make good opamps sound identical, by eliminating variance in distortion in the right circuit.

For the record my gustard a18 now has opa1612 in the iv and lowpass and I'm happier that way, but can make no claim for audibility as there's no way to a/b test it. So even though I think it sounds different, I can't prove it does. I might just be fooling myself.

I wouldn’t say “fooling yourself,” but rather, having made a change in your system you are listening more closely to the music to spot changes. In fact, if you hear differences, those differences are not imaginary—but it is you who have changed, not the performance of the equipment. You are “hearing things I’ve never heard before” because you are listening to the music with a critical ear, rather than letting your mind gloss over the sonic details.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Maybe. But this is a SONY recording, I do not think they do MQA.

What looks like happened is that an out of phase waveform of the signal was created and then shifted up 24kHz. Most probably, a 16/48 or 24/48 file was subjected to some sort of digital filtering that did this. So, although the sound up to 96kHz is correlated with the music, it is not natural and is garbage that can safely be ignored.

 

[Peternz]

Thanks for this review. It is not every day that a game changing product like this appears.

 

[sq225917]

Billy, no, it was just straight malfunctioning, there was something wrong with it, like drastically wrong, not distorting, just a massive tilt in the FR. Back to back with an smsl 400 level matched it was obviously out of spec. I had the whole analogue section rebuilt to the spec of the akm Eval board circuit. Seemed like the easiest option. Once fixed it sounded just like the smsl, or no difference that I could hear.

I just couldn't be arsed to return it to China, easier to go the repair route. I've since heard two other a18s, they didn't sound broken.

 

[ShiZo]

@JohnYang1997, I might have already asked, but does the device need usb power to be identified by usb? Or is just data fine (no big deal either way with such good jitter performance)?

 

[JohnYang1997]

@JohnYang1997, I might have already asked, but does the device need usb power to be identified by usb? Or is just data fine (no big deal either way with such good jitter performance)?

I think it needs 5v power.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Great review Amir. Makes it a lot easier if you want to own the best measuring product now!

Does Topping have a reputation for putting out bad products? I mean new products from an established supplier doesn't necessarily need an early adopter warning does it? I think Topping as earned some trust (but I don't know what I don't know).

 

[dmac6419]

That logo on the front top right ruins everything for me in a product. I refuse to pay an extra 50/70 dollars for that scheme.

Logo has nothing to do with it,probably just don't have the funds for it,next week,month or year they'll be something better,let other who are in the market for a new dac enjoy this d90se.

 

[JohnYang1997]

It is true hand chosen discrete components for given application / topology will trump run off the mill op-amps, It is also easy to get things wrong in lesser hands.
I have personally never liked Topping's stock ESS based implementations (purely from sound quality perspective). But that's my subjective opinion. They seem to chase 5 leading 0s THD+N more than pleasing tonality.

I particularly dislike the use of OPA1612 in I/V stage - it is NOT a part meant for trans-impedance application. For I/V stage, if not using passive components, at least use parts with very high slew rates and bandwidth. Or implement ESS DAC in Voltage output mode.
Similarly OPA1612 is not an optimal (even TI does not recommend using it given the high input current noise) in LPF stages.

D50 (not D50s) particularly sounds horrendous!
Yes it can be made to sound better by swapping those parts with something else. And in the process it might drop a leading 0 (or 2) in the measurements which won't earn the product that high rank
Bottom line is - the company has good engineers in that they can churn out good measuring devices. It's about time they also invest time in extensive listening tests and see if it actually sounds good to human auditory system. Try comparing the sound with DACs which might not break records in measurement department but are highly praised for their sonic performance. After all, we don't listen to music via an AP analyzer.

This is very wrong in almost every way.

 

[dmac6419]

Yeah they will lose some buyers if they don't provide non-MQA version, imagine having this DAC for 10 years and that MQA will be faded away just like any bogus in the audio industry in the past. I am not against the support, I am againts the extra logo and usage license you pay for it. It should be like other formats, no logo and no usage fee to pay. 50-70 USD for the sake of a format it is a lot. At this category it is acceptable but not a good thing anyway.

If you don't subscribe to mqa,than won't this dac be non mqa?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Does any one consider the thermal aspect of the d90se?

I set recorder function on AP and leave it on overnight performance doesn't change.

 

[dmac6419]

This is very wrong in almost every way.

I concur

 

[JohnYang1997]

Guys, like I said I realised I am in the wrong forum.
I certainly, for one, don't encourage audiophile fuses, cable burn in etc. But to say all opamps or parts sounds the same and have no difference just because the FR looks same clearly fortifies me being a wrong fit amongst you good people.
I would gracefully now withdraw from this conversation; happy to agree to disagree with what Amir, you or alikes have to opine on this matter.

Simple, to support your claim just provide evidence. Either measurements or double blind test of multiple people preferring certain opamps.

 

[Doodski]

But to say all opamps or parts sounds the same and have no difference just because the FR looks same clearly fortifies me being a wrong fit amongst you good people.

For audio applications the variations in OP amp frequency response/slew rate are so slight that there will not be a audible difference. There are gain variations too and it is possible one OP amp could be louder than another and that will be perceived as better sounding.

 

[dualazmak]

MQA,,, I myself do not need this. It would be very simple that if I would decide to have D90SE (I really like to do so as replacement for my OPPO SONICA DAC!), I will put a small piece of black vinyl tape to hide the MQA logo (on black D90SE).

Since I am using OKTO DAC8PRO in my multichannel project, and, therefore, I would like to request/suggest Topping to consider multichannel DAC (hopefully fully synchronized 10-channel or more) with similar level of specifications as in D90SE; I do not need DSP-EQ (should be done upstream in PC), MQA, bluetooth... in my perspectives.

 

[ShiZo]

@JohnYang1997 , should be my last question, thank you for answering our questions. Does it have headroom for intersample peaks?

 

[JohnYang1997]

@JohnYang1997 , should be my last question, thank you for answering our questions. Does it have headroom for intersample peaks?

Yes and no. In real world there's no issue. If you use square wave then no.
It's pretty safe to assume real music will not have larger intersample peak than multitone measurement. As you see in many reviews there are many devices do clip with multitone. As D90se doesn't have any issue in multitone, it should perform very well with real music.

 

[Deleted member 31709]

This is very wrong in almost every way.

Of course, of all people, your response is the most predictable

@JohnYang1997 , should be my last question, thank you for answering our questions. Does it have headroom for intersample peaks?

D90SE , employs ESS' built in 8x oversampling filters. If you are passing 352.8 / 384 kHz or above PCM, you need to account for headroom yourself in your source.

 

[restorer-john]

If you use square wave then no.

The D/A can handle a normal standard test 0dB 1kHz square wave can't it? Without truncating the overshoot/undershoot?