Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[MadHatter37]

Finally got around to measuring the Topping D90SE and Gustard X16 filters in the stack setup. Here's the amplitude response for the seven different Topping filters:

View attachment 155337

The colors that REW ended up picking are not great, but these are in order, from top to bottom:

• Mode 1 - Fast roll off apodizing
• Mode 2 - Slow roll off minimum
• Mode 3 - Fast roll off minimum (default)
• Mode 4 - Slow roll off linear
• Mode 5 - Fast roll off linear
• Mode 6 - Brick-wall
• Mode 7 - Fast roll off corrected minimum

Here's the same plot for the Gustard's three filter choices:

View attachment 155338

From the plots, it's clear that this is a proper subset of the Topping filter options:

• L-FAST (same as Mode 5 - Fast roll off linear)
• M-SLOW (same as Mode 2 - Slow roll off minimum)
• H-FAST (same as Mode 7 - Fast roll off corrected minimum)

I'll just compare the time-domain response of these three, but if you're interested in looking at the others, feel free to download my REW *.mdat file here.

Here's Topping vs. Gustard (in that order) for Fast roll off linear / L-FAST. I'm showing the step and impulse response. For these plots, I'm looking at the length and degree of pre/post-ringing:

View attachment 155339
View attachment 155340

Not identical, but pretty darn close. Here's the same for Slow roll off minimum / M-SLOW:

View attachment 155341
View attachment 155342

Finally, here's Fast roll off corrected minimum / H-FAST:

View attachment 155343
View attachment 155344

Not sure how audible any of this stuff is, but of the three, H-FAST (Mode 7 on the Topping) appears to have no pre-ringing, while post-ringing is not terrible. From what I understand humans tend to be more sensitive to pre-ringing (which does not occur in nature except on Star Trek) than post-ringing, so this seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

At the end of the day, you get to choose which you prefer if you have one of these DACs. Again, feel free to download my REW data file to see the rest of the Topping filters. If you want to use my limits settings to match the captures here, select "%" instead of "dBFS" on the "Impulse" tab and use these limit settings:
View attachment 155348
For the rest of my listening, I'll leave the Topping on Mode 7 and the Gustard on H-FAST. The amplitude response looks funky (when zoomed in), but I can't hear to 20 kHz anyway, so a half a dB of roll-off at 16 kHz doe not bother me in the least. Enjoy.

Edit: I've fixed the zip file containing my REW *.mdat file. Did this late last night and mistakenly used `gzip` instead of `zip`. Sorry. Also, I created these plots using the latest beta version of REW. I've not tested, but I would not be surprised if the production release of REW fails to open this file, which kind-of sucks. It only takes a few minutes to create an account on AV NIRVANA so that you can download the beta, but sorry for the inconvenience.

I’m curious if some of these results are impacted by other gear in your signal chain or REW upper frequency limits, calibration of signal inputs, or other artifacts. The response curves don’t match those posted by AmirM, so Im not sure if that impacts the time domain measurements.

 

[zhgutov]

I’m curious if some of these results are impacted by other gear in your signal chain or REW upper frequency limits, calibration of signal inputs, or other artifacts. The response curves don’t match those posted by AmirM, so Im not sure if that impacts the time domain measurements.

They definitely are impacted by other gear.

 

[Dgob]

Hi All,

I was wondering what choices people made in set-up when deciding between the Sound Mode options of:

OFF,
Valve Sound or
Transistor Sound?

I might well have missed this earlier in the thread. If so, could someone point me to the appropriate page?

If not, any feedback on preferences and (if possible) reasons for choices would be appreciated.

Many thanks

 

[ErVikingo]

Hi All,

I was wondering what choices people made in set-up when deciding between the Sound Mode options of:

OFF,
Valve Sound or
Transistor Sound?

I might well have missed this earlier in the thread. If so, could someone point me to the appropriate page?

If not, any feedback on preferences and (if possible) reasons for choices would be appreciated.

Many thanks

FWIW I keep it OFF so as not add any coloring to the music.

Its a matter of personal taste and perhaps the timbre or tone of your system.

 

[Dgob]

FWIW I keep it OFF so as not add any coloring to the music.

Its a matter of personal taste and perhaps the timbre or tone of your system.

To be honest, I do the same. I experimented with the 'valve' and the 'transistor' options and couldn't understand how these really were high fidelity options.

I imagine that some do use these and am curious to know how and why. I expect that you are correct and it will be taste and system dependent, but would love to hear from anyone who has a different experience with those alternative options.

Many thanks

 

[Angsty]

To be honest, I do the same. I experimented with the 'valve' and the 'transistor' options and couldn't understand how these really were high fidelity options.

For the “valve curious” crowd!

 

[Rottmannash]

I couldn't discern any difference between the 3 so left it neutral.

 

[Dgob]

I couldn't discern any difference between the 3 so left it neutral.

Sorry to hear that, as it were . There are very audible differences (particularly on the 'Valve Sound' option) on my set-up. These are especially obvious regarding bass reproduction, dynamics and imaging. I expected that to be a universal outcome, which underpins my curiosity regarding their functionality.

Can I ask what set-up (gear) your D90SE runs with?

 

[Rottmannash]

Sorry to hear that, as it were . There are very audible differences (particularly on the 'Valve Sound' option) on my set-up. These are especially obvious regarding bass reproduction, dynamics and imaging. I expected that to be a universal outcome, which underpins my curiosity regarding their functionality.

Can I ask what set-up (gear) your D90SE runs with?

Trust me, everyone who has commented on these modes on various sites have agreed-no one can reliably tell a difference. My rig is in my sig. Eversolo DMP A6>D90SE>Freya+ passthru>Buckeye 3 ch Purifi>F208's.

 

[Dgob]

Trust me, everyone who has commented on these modes on various sites have agreed-no one can reliably tell a difference. My rig is in my sig. Eversolo DMP A6>D90SE>Freya+ passthru>Buckeye 3 ch Purifi>F208's.

Many commentators then, and a nice system. Strange feeling to apparently be the only one who can hear the notable (noted) distinctions!

But more seriously, I am amazed that even the Valve Sound option is not obviously distinct (although I could understand greater difficulty in distinguishing the distinctions between the OFF and Transistor Sound options). As I said, it is not a small distinction for me.

 

[staticV3]

As I said, it is not a small distinction for me.

It's not, right until you close your eyes and ask a friend to choose a random setting while you guess which one it is

 

[Sokel]

Trust me, everyone who has commented on these modes on various sites have agreed-no one can reliably tell a difference. My rig is in my sig. Eversolo DMP A6>D90SE>Freya+ passthru>Buckeye 3 ch Purifi>F208's.

If one wants to see how these modes look like here they are:

We're talking 60db and 40db SINAD for Transistor and Tube.
(that could put some SINAD chasers to rest and it's ironic to happen by a SINAD champion)

 

[Dgob]

If one wants to see how these modes look like here they are:

View attachment 365805

We're talking 60db and 40db SINAD for Transistor and Tube.
(that could put some SINAD chasers to rest and it's ironic to happen by a SINAD champion)

Thank you. That looks like what I imagine I'm hearing.

 

[Dgob]

It's not, right until you close your eyes and ask a friend to choose a random setting while you guess which one it is

 

[SashaR]

I ask for the help of experts!

How to use the Topping D90SE and Topping LA90 kit with the greatest efficiency?

1. The D90SE DAC should be used in DAC mode, WITHOUT volume control, - and the LA90 amplifier should be used in volume control mode.
2. The D90SE DAC is used as a volume control - and the LA90 amplifier is switched to the mode WITHOUT volume control.

USB cable comes to the input of the DAC, and 4-ohm speakers with a sensitivity of 88.5 dB (Vela 408) are connected to the output of the amplifier. The interblock cables are XLR.


Thank you very much!

 

[Sokel]

I ask for the help of experts!

How to use the Topping D90SE and Topping LA90 kit with the greatest efficiency?

1. The D90SE DAC should be used in DAC mode, WITHOUT volume control, - and the LA90 amplifier should be used in volume control mode.
2. The D90SE DAC is used as a volume control - and the LA90 amplifier is switched to the mode WITHOUT volume control.

USB cable comes to the input of the DAC, and 4-ohm speakers with a sensitivity of 88.5 dB (Vela 408) are connected to the output of the amplifier. The interblock cables are XLR.


Thank you very much!

The safer way to do it apart from SQ,etc is setting the amp to the loudest you will ever need and then control level by the DAC.
That way even if something that will present the full DAC level occur there will be some kind of fail-safe.

 

[SashaR]

The safer way to do it apart from SQ,etc is setting the amp to the loudest you will ever need and then control level by the DAC.
That way even if something that will present the full DAC level occur there will be some kind of fail-safe.

Thank you! I was suggested to use the amp in through mode (without the volume control) and the DAC as the digital volume control.
Luckily for me, my low-power amplifier (Topping LA90) creates unbearably loud sound even with the volume control in the middle position, and on the other hand, my speakers have a 3-5-fold power reserve compared to the maximum power of the amplifier - so there can be no breakdowns in this equipment.

 

[Sokel]

Thank you! I was suggested to use the amp in through mode (without the volume control) and the DAC as the digital volume control.
Luckily for me, my low-power amplifier (Topping LA90) creates unbearably loud sound even with the volume control in the middle position, and on the other hand, my speakers have a 3-5-fold power reserve compared to the maximum power of the amplifier - so there can be no breakdowns in this equipment.

The danger with a low power amp is always when reaching the clipping point.
Every rating after has little meaning.
So better be on the safe side,after all the result will be the same and even better (depending the quality of the amp's VC,lowering it will allow you to have better SNR on the DACs side,not that any of this will be audible at that level though) .

 

[SashaR]

The danger with a low power amp is always when reaching the clipping point.
Every rating after has little meaning.
So better be on the safe side,after all the result will be the same and even better (depending the quality of the amp's VC,lowering it will allow you to have better SNR on the DACs side,not that any of this will be audible at that level though) .

Thank you! I probably didn't explain my situation correctly. My low-power TOPPING LA90 screams unbearably loudly even with the VC in the middle position. I probably don't understand what clipping is and what you told me about it.

I probably didn't understand the second part of your advice either, but just in case, I'm publishing my gratitude to two kind people, which contains links to their explanations of the topic that, as I assume, you explain in the second part of your advice - for which I am very grateful to you!!!
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...eview-integrated-amplifier.33374/post-1970442

 

[Sokel]

I probably don't understand what clipping is and what you told me about it.

Have a look at the chart of your amp here and follow the lines:



The sudden rise you see at about 50W is when the amp passes it's point of linear operation.The lines show you that distortion and noise skyrockets at this point (the lower-the better) .
Of course you will hear it if it happens and at that point you have to reduce level as clipping has a lot of unwanted side effects,can destroy speakers,etc.