Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[AlephAlpha001]

?

Let's see if the GoldenOne video lures out the hordes of slavering subjectivists.

 

[Arnas]

...and now we know why the odd 5.2v output, seems Topping knows all the tricks of how to get the Maximum Performance out of the APX555...
Scroll to 22:40...

Dude is a clown

 

[Mr.XO]

Topping played a measuring game. If you are interested in the internal structure, you will see, over time they have removed a lot of high-quality components. In D90se, toroidal transformers are gone, ES9038 pro is also half the price of AK4499, no more Accusilicon oscillators, no more linear regulators from Texas Instrument, no Nichicon high quality filter capacitors, and the price remains unchanged. It's clear that it's just the measurement results and they're benefiting a lot from this website.

I guess, today you get the Gustard x18 if you really want all that.. as it seems to be a copy of the D90SE otherwise.
Has anyone tried both in their system, any particular preference based on how they actually perform, sound, etc.?
Thanks!

 

[Roland68]

I guess, today you get the Gustard x18 if you really want all that.. as it seems to be a copy of the D90SE otherwise.

Please don't spread such untrue rumours.
The D90SE and the X18 couldn't be more different.
Although they use the same DAC chip, the technical solutions are very different in many areas, especially in the area of data input, power supply, voltage supply of the various areas and circuitry as well as implementation of the ES9038Pro.

 

[mocenigo]

Please don't spread such untrue rumours.
The D90SE and the X18 couldn't be more different.
Although they use the same DAC chip, the technical solutions are very different in many areas, especially in the area of data input, power supply, voltage supply of the various areas and circuitry as well as implementation of the ES9038Pro.

Indeed, if we exclude everything but the main chip they are identical

 

[Mr.XO]

Please don't spread such untrue rumours.
The D90SE and the X18 couldn't be more different.
Although they use the same DAC chip, the technical solutions are very different in many areas, especially in the area of data input, power supply, voltage supply of the various areas and circuitry as well as implementation of the ES9038Pro.

Ha.. then you are exactly the person I have been looking for..

I was only wondering.. so which one would you say is a better implementation?

I have the D90SE but as much as I like how it sounds.. I have various issues with it and lately signal from my node 2i via coax starts cutting out / dropping randomly till a restart - and it's not from that clock trim setting, as I have it disabled.

So I got the D1SE as well, which sort of does some things better but not entirely to my liking in terms of what I was hoping. Another 50+ hrs and it's Rich2 sound color setting has helped a bit since I posted this,

SMSL SU-9 vs D1se

none so far, I am waiting for some discount and I will decide, but yeah same as you I am between Do200, d1se and maybe gustard x18, board for the Gustard x18 looks really solid and it measures almost the same as de D90se, but I am a bit afraid that sound ultra-clean, clinical sound, according to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

SMSL D1SE Balanced ES9038PRO

No surprise really. If you want to buy audio equipment from within Europe there is really only audiophonics in France. And if you are lucky Amazon has some stuff that gets actually shipped by Amazon. Or at hifistudio79.nl or soundimports.eu in the Netherlands, clear-components.de in Germany...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And so I have been wondering about getting the x18 or x26pro.. but of course start at the x18.
I should say they all seem to have one issue or the other..

Gustard X26Pro firmware release (F20 beta)

I have recently installed a X26 Pro (still F1.A fw). My comment to the sound quality: some stress and unclear in famale/male voices. The vivid filter is most used, later switched to gentle with better a result. Your tell us about the F2.0 beta fw: sound quality reviewed, can you comment more on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Roland68]

Ha.. then you are exactly the person I have been looking for..

I was only wondering.. so which one would you say is a better implementation?

I have the D90SE but as much as I like how it sounds.. I have various issues with it and lately signal from my node 2i via coax starts cutting out / dropping randomly till a restart - and it's not from that clock trim setting, as I have it disabled.

So I got the D1SE as well, which sort of does some things better but not entirely to my liking in terms of what I was hoping. Another 50+ hrs and it's Rich2 sound color setting has helped a bit since I posted this,

SMSL SU-9 vs D1se

none so far, I am waiting for some discount and I will decide, but yeah same as you I am between Do200, d1se and maybe gustard x18, board for the Gustard x18 looks really solid and it measures almost the same as de D90se, but I am a bit afraid that sound ultra-clean, clinical sound, according to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

SMSL D1SE Balanced ES9038PRO

No surprise really. If you want to buy audio equipment from within Europe there is really only audiophonics in France. And if you are lucky Amazon has some stuff that gets actually shipped by Amazon. Or at hifistudio79.nl or soundimports.eu in the Netherlands, clear-components.de in Germany...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And so I have been wondering about getting the x18 or x26pro.. but of course start at the x18.
I should say they all seem to have one issue or the other..

Gustard X26Pro firmware release (F20 beta)

I have recently installed a X26 Pro (still F1.A fw). My comment to the sound quality: some stress and unclear in famale/male voices. The vivid filter is most used, later switched to gentle with better a result. Your tell us about the F2.0 beta fw: sound quality reviewed, can you comment more on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So actually the D90SE doesn't cause any problems with the Node 2i over Coax if you turn off the SPDIF timing/enhancement feature.
You should first isolate the problem.
Does the coax cable meet the specifications? Real coaxial cable with 75 Ohm characteristic impedance? At least 50cm long (or longer)?
Have you tried an optical cable?

 

[Mr.XO]

So actually the D90SE doesn't cause any problems with the Node 2i over Coax if you turn off the SPDIF timing/enhancement feature.
You should first isolate the problem.
Does the coax cable meet the specifications? Real coaxial cable with 75 Ohm characteristic impedance? At least 50cm long (or longer)?
Have you tried an optical cable?

Yep, that timing feature is definitely off. I have had it so from the time I got the node 2i. The issue just developed after I was past may be 100 or so hours on the d90se. And since it surfaced I haven't had an hour of continuous listening w/o having to restart. Have tried both coax and toslink, but no luck. Coax I have tried is from BJC and mogami both 6ft.

So do you think x18 would be better than d90se in terms of the internals, and not have these connection issues..?

 

[Roland68]

Yep, that timing feature is definitely off. I have had it so from the time I got the node 2i. The issue just developed after I was past may be 100 or so hours on the d90se. And since it surfaced I haven't had an hour of continuous listening w/o having to restart. Have tried both coax and toslink, but no luck. Coax I have tried is from BJC and mogami both 6ft.

So do you think x18 would be better than d90se in terms of the internals, and not have these connection issues..?

The basic problem is that all manufacturers had to switch to other solutions/ICs due to the lack of AKM chips (e.g. also AK4114, 4118, 4137).
Apparently, the Node 2i uses its own solution with HEX inverters for the SPDIF and Toslink output. The D90SE uses a simple but proven CS8416 for the SPDIF and Toslink input. Difficult to say without taking measurements what the problem is.

If you have DIY skills/experience and you think you can do it, you could try tapping the i2s signal in the Node 2i and transferring it to the D90SE with an i2s to LVDS converter board.

 

[Mr.XO]

The basic problem is that all manufacturers had to switch to other solutions/ICs due to the lack of AKM chips (e.g. also AK4114, 4118, 4137).
Apparently, the Node 2i uses its own solution with HEX inverters for the SPDIF and Toslink output. The D90SE uses a simple but proven CS8416 for the SPDIF and Toslink input. Difficult to say without taking measurements what the problem is.

If you have DIY skills/experience and you think you can do it, you could try tapping the i2s signal in the Node 2i and transferring it to the D90SE with an i2s to LVDS converter board.

Honestly that's just too much hassle to make an almost close to $1000/- (after tax) DAC work. I rather just return it and buy something that works.
Thanks for your time.
I had hoped someone would answer my Q on the Gustards.. may be that a NO in a Topping thread or something..
X18 seemed similar as they did the same single chip (4x2) in current mode and the same op-amps in the output stages etc. So to a layman glancing over the board only the LPS vs SMPS stands out.

 

[xxxzeddiexxx]

I just received my Topping D90SE. I'm using Qobuz (windows 10 laptop) - usb (shielded inakustic excellence)- topping d90se - RCA - Rotel pre-amp - Rotel amp - Cabasse Murano. I'm experiencing glitches, pops, cracks from the start throughout playback, not just when switching songs. I tried every setting under the sun, wasapi, asio, changing buffersize, rca output to 5V, tried older drivers for the D90SE, checking every USB setting and drivers, on my laptop etc. It's driving me mad. It does not happen with BT connection (phone) but that is not an option for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Laptop is Lenovo Legion 5, all is updated. The Topping D90SE replaces my Ifi nano ione(never had any problems on the same system).

 

[S-unny]

I just received my Topping D90SE. I'm using Qobuz (windows 10 laptop) - usb (shielded inakustic excellence)- topping d90se - RCA - Rotel pre-amp - Rotel amp - Cabasse Murano. I'm experiencing glitches, pops, cracks from the start throughout playback, not just when switching songs. I tried every setting under the sun, wasapi, asio, changing buffersize, rca output to 5V, tried older drivers for the D90SE, checking every USB setting and drivers, on my laptop etc. It's driving me mad. It does not happen with BT connection (phone) but that is not an option for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Laptop is Lenovo Legion 5, all is updated. The Topping D90SE replaces my Ifi nano ione(never had any problems on the same system).

I run the following configuration
iphone -> bluesound node 2 -> d90se -> Nad c298 power amp -> loudspeakers
Initially I ran into similar issues wherein the music was choppy & glitchy. Within bluesound setup there is an option "audio clock trim" which I turned off, specially when connecting to an external DAC. This solved my problem. Perhaps there is something similar in your setup ?

Out of curiosity (and not related to your question), have you explored connecting the d90se directly to the Rotel amp ? ie bypassing the Rotel pre-amp ? because the d90se has a pre-amp function built in ... As strongly suggested to me, if you do start with the d90se volume way down

 

[theREALdotnet]

I just received my Topping D90SE. I'm using Qobuz (windows 10 laptop) - usb (shielded inakustic excellence)- topping d90se - RCA - Rotel pre-amp - Rotel amp - Cabasse Murano. I'm experiencing glitches, pops, cracks from the start throughout playback, not just when switching songs. I tried every setting under the sun, wasapi, asio, changing buffersize, rca output to 5V, tried older drivers for the D90SE, checking every USB setting and drivers, on my laptop etc. It's driving me mad. It does not happen with BT connection (phone) but that is not an option for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Laptop is Lenovo Legion 5, all is updated. The Topping D90SE replaces my Ifi nano ione(never had any problems on the same system).

Have you tried a different USB cable? Some of them are marginal, or could be old USB-1 (I know many in my drawer are). A lot of “audiophile” USB cables don’t even conform to specs. I’d try a USB-2 cable from a reputable vendor (i.e. not a 50¢ cable from Ali Express) with tight fitting connectors.

 

[xxxzeddiexxx]

I run the following configuration
iphone -> bluesound node 2 -> d90se -> Nad c298 power amp -> loudspeakers
Initially I ran into similar issues wherein the music was choppy & glitchy. Within bluesound setup there is an option "audio clock trim" which I turned off, specially when connecting to an external DAC. This solved my problem. Perhaps there is something similar in your setup ?

Out of curiosity (and not related to your question), have you explored connecting the d90se directly to the Rotel amp ? ie bypassing the Rotel pre-amp ? because the d90se has a pre-amp function built in ... As strongly suggested to me, if you do start with the d90se volume way down

No such option in my system...
I was going to test that but it's not a permanent option for me.
Thx for the tips.

 

[xxxzeddiexxx]

Have you tried a different USB cable? Some of them are marginal, or could be old USB-1 (I know many in my drawer are). A lot of “audiophile” USB cables don’t even conform to specs. I’d try a USB-2 cable from a reputable vendor (i.e. not a 50¢ cable from Ali Express) with tight fitting connectors.

I tried 4. Then eventually bought

Excellence High Speed USB 2.0 - USB 2.0 Cable :: in-akustik

in-akustik.de

No improvement.

 

[S-unny]

I tried 4. Then eventually bought

Excellence High Speed USB 2.0 - USB 2.0 Cable :: in-akustik

in-akustik.de

No improvement.

I remember reading about pop/crackle issues with the d90se sometime ago. Have you tried their customer service "[email protected]" ? They were quite helpful to me during introducing the d90se into my setup

 

[da Choge]

I just received my Topping D90SE. I'm using Qobuz (windows 10 lhttps://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-dx3pro-dac-and-headphone-amp.4967/post-360136aptop) - usb (shielded inakustic excellence)- topping d90se - RCA - Rotel pre-amp - Rotel amp - Cabasse Murano. I'm experiencing glitches, pops, cracks from the start throughout playback, not just when switching songs. I tried every setting under the sun, wasapi, asio, changing buffersize, rca output to 5V, tried older drivers for the D90SE, checking every USB setting and drivers, on my laptop etc. It's driving me mad. It does not happen with BT connection (phone) but that is not an option for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Laptop is Lenovo Legion 5, all is updated. The Topping D90SE replaces my Ifi nano ione(never had any problems on the same system).

Zeddie:

My first Topping DAC, the DX3Pro, is hooked up with my Windows PC, and I use it with Roon to play music at my desktop setup. Early in my use, somewhere along the way, the setup developed huge issues with playback pops, sputters, and glitches. If my memory is correct, I believe if I rebooted my PC, the issues would resolve for a bit, but always return. I finally got those issues totally resolved after I addressed some latency issues with my PC. LatencyMon is a good program to see if you have those kind of issues with your laptop. I'll refer you to one of my previous posts regarding that; here is the link; PC latency issues. Don't know if it will help or even if that's your issue, but you might want to give it a gander.

PS. Also thought the audio clock trim issue, referred to a couple posts above, might of interest, but I guess not in your case.

 

[Rottmannash]

So actually the D90SE doesn't cause any problems with the Node 2i over Coax if you turn off the SPDIF timing/enhancement feature.
You should first isolate the problem.
Does the coax cable meet the specifications? Real coaxial cable with 75 Ohm characteristic impedance? At least 50cm long (or longer)?
Have you tried an optical cable?

I'm feeding the D90SE from the Node2i via Coax and have had zero issues of any kind. Not sure what could be causing this issue but the aforementioned setting in BlueOS.

 

[Rottmannash]

No such option in my system...
I was going to test that but it's not a permanent option for me.
Thx for the tips.

If you have a Node 2i you do have that option in the menu.

 

[xxxzeddiexxx]

Zeddie:

My first Topping DAC, the DX3Pro, is hooked up with my Windows PC, and I use it with Roon to play music at my desktop setup. Early in my use, somewhere along the way, the setup developed huge issues with playback pops, sputters, and glitches. If my memory is correct, I believe if I rebooted my PC, the issues would resolve for a bit, but always return. I finally got those issues totally resolved after I addressed some latency issues with my PC. LatencyMon is a good program to see if you have those kind of issues with your laptop. I'll refer you to one of my previous posts regarding that; here is the link; PC latency issues. Don't know if it will help or even if that's your issue, but you might want to give it a gander.

PS. Also thought the audio clock trim issue, referred to a couple posts above, might of interest, but I guess not in your case.

Thx for this!
Seems to be wdf01000.sys ?
Googling the error right now...
I think I'll be doing a fresh install of windows with only vendor drivers tomorrow. I'm beat...