• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

Eddy H.

Active Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2021
Messages
133
Likes
71
I really want to see for myself if all of those reviewers are full of $#!t.
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,969
Likes
2,606
Location
Nashville

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
9,596
Likes
12,036
If I'm not using my D90SE with a computer I don't really need to load the new firmware do I? I'm running from a Node 2i into the D90SE.
Software driver, not firmware. It fixes mostly OS-dependant things, so no. You're fine :)
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,969
Likes
2,606
Location
Nashville

JL-F1

New Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
2
Likes
2
D90SE connect to MonoPrice THX 887 via Balanced
Using IEMS connected to 4pin XLR-2.5mm adapter

Need to get alittle more volume control, I can only use 7 o'clock, which is all the way down up to about 8-8:30 at low gain

Should I run DAC at 4V or 5V?

Should I switch DAC out of DAC mode an go minus on digital volume in DAC? IF so, what is the negatives of this?

Thank you
 

linger63

Active Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
103
Likes
73
Location
Australia
D90SE connect to MonoPrice THX 887 via Balanced
Using IEMS connected to 4pin XLR-2.5mm adapter

Need to get alittle more volume control, I can only use 7 o'clock, which is all the way down up to about 8-8:30 at low gain

Should I run DAC at 4V or 5V?

Should I switch DAC out of DAC mode an go minus on digital volume in DAC? IF so, what is the negatives of this?

Thank you
If you connect via RCA instead output voltage is reduced to 2V.
This will allow more headroom for your volume control but will also reduce SINAD performance by 3dB.

See here..........https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,029
Likes
1,445
Location
Dallas, TX
Hello everyone,

I own a D90SE since a couple of weeks and I wonder if anyone have solved the problem with sound droppings via optical and coax inputs?
I use my D90SE with CD player by coax - the droppings are like every 25-30 minutes, but with 12 yo Sony tv by optical droppings are even by every 3-5 seconds to 15-30 seconds (this varies on tv channel I am watching, on some there are no droppings). This is really annoying. I am dissappointed with this gear... Any solutions so far?
I also noticed that droppings are more frequent in time. At the very beginning I haven't noticed them. There are no droppings with USB, neither the bluetooth.
This is a well-known limitation of the Topping due to its use of a cs8416 S/PDIF receiver. It’s an unavoidable hardware limitation that can’t be mitigated by firmware upgrades.

However, if you’re primarily experiencing this with your TV or Blu Ray player connections, you can buy a Kanex Pro HAECOAX HDMI audio extractor and work around the issue with no limitations (Amazon link below). You connect the HAECOAX to the audio HDMI output from your TV or player, then run either coax or optical out of the HAECOAX to the Topping and the dropouts will cease. I have this solution in my setup and it works flawlessly, at a very minimal cost. Feel free to PM me if you have further questions.

Note: make sure you get the HAECOAX version and not the HAECOAX3–the latter doesn’t work. And to get the optimal resolution, make sure you turn on the multichannel button even with stereo sources—don’t ask me why, but that setting just works.


 

linger63

Active Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
103
Likes
73
Location
Australia
Note: make sure you get the HAECOAX version and not the HAECOAX3–the latter doesn’t work. And to get the optimal resolution, make sure you turn on the multichannel button even with stereo sources—don’t ask me why, but that setting just works.



That's interesting.
I have the exact same De embedder and I need to select "Stereo" (red light on) for my 2 channel hi res stuff to be at full resolution.
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,029
Likes
1,445
Location
Dallas, TX
That's interesting.
I have the exact same De embedder and I need to select "Stereo" (red light on) for my 2 channel hi res stuff to be at full resolution.
I think we’re meaning the same thing—both leds need to be lit for me to get resolutions above 44.1 kHz.

One interesting thing about my setup is that I have a Sony Blu Ray player (specifically the UBP-x1000ES), and it has the DSEE Extreme Engine option, which until recently I hadn’t a clue what it did. Found out that when I have it active, my Red Book 44.1 CDs are recognized by my Topping d90SE as 88.2 kHz tracks, and my SACD discs are read at 176.4 khz. With it off CDs are decoded at 44.1 and SACDs at 88.2. Apparently it upsamples the signal by a factor of two. My Oppo UDP-203 does not upscale outputs like this via HDMI—and although I don’t have access to measurements to quantify the difference in audio quality with the DSEE engine engaged, subjectively the results are quite audible to me, particularly in the quality and quantity of the low end.

The UBP-x1000ES was a limited run “Elevated Standard” edition Sony produced, and this series is supposed to be their premium tier audio range (the Z1Rs and their crazy-expensive DAPs belong to this product line)—I bought it three years ago for $599, but now it’s going pre-owned for insane prices on Reverb and eBay. But Sony still makes their now-flagship UBP-x800M2 that has the DSEE option as well, presumably with the same results using a de-embedder…
 

Eddy H.

Active Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2021
Messages
133
Likes
71
The D90se vs. Ares2 starts today! First impressions are the Denifrips isn't as detailed as the Topping. Going to let it warm up for awhile and see if anything changes.
 

Attachments

  • 16438351184787997271801581148372.jpg
    16438351184787997271801581148372.jpg
    175.5 KB · Views: 125

Zorlac

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
41
Likes
30
Location
Spokane, WA
Just ordered this DAC and super excited!! ((Sure hope I don't have issues with one of my sources [MiSTer FPGA] that will use optical...yikes!))

Question - If I install the driver on my PC (that will be connected via USB), then can I still use WASAPI in Foobar2000 or will it be ASIO only? I ask because I have heard folks state that the driver is strictly for ASIO. The change notes sure mention a bunch of other stuff though. :)

Love ASR by the way!!! \m/
 

Eddy H.

Active Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2021
Messages
133
Likes
71
Just ordered this DAC and super excited!! ((Sure hope I don't have issues with one of my sources [MiSTer FPGA] that will use optical...yikes!))

Question - If I install the driver on my PC (that will be connected via USB), then can I still use WASAPI in Foobar2000 or will it be ASIO only? I ask because I have heard folks state that the driver is strictly for ASIO. The change notes sure mention a bunch of other stuff though. :)

Love ASR by the way!!! \m/
It will still use Wasapi.
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,029
Likes
1,445
Location
Dallas, TX
The D90se vs. Ares2 starts today! First impressions are the Denifrips isn't as detailed as the Topping. Going to let it warm up for awhile and see if anything changes.
Well that certainly looks at first blush like one heck of an “apples vs oranges” challenge, right? Except that I think that the battle lines between R2R and delta sigma DACs are becoming increasingly blurred, in the era of full-eight channel ES9038pro implementations that obviate the ESS “hump” and score truly unprecedented numbers on SINAD, linearity and multi tone. So my question is, why spend more than what you did with the Topping?

I keep hearing folks speak in hushed tones about RME, Ares or Schiit DACs, while turning up their noses at offerings such as the D90se or the Gustard x18–and although I consider all three of the former manufacturers to be uncompromising in the quality of their builds, it’s hard to argue with the measurements of the Topping or the Gustard—and their builds are certainly nothing to grumble about either.

When I first got my Topping D90se, I did my own listening challenge with a Schiit Yggdrasil, primarily based on my disbelief at the time that a DAC as “cheap” as the Topping could measure up with the rest of my system—which cost a great deal more. And with full honesty, I could hardly hear a difference—certainly nothing to justify the outlandish cost of the Schiit in any imaginable way.

I know some folks gush about R2R DACs for their impeccable “sound signatures” and “grandeur”, but I think that’s a bunch of nonsense—as I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t think DACs need to provide such things in today’s market of discrete components, and I don’t ask them to. I get my grandeur, tonality and warmth from my tube amp and my headphones—and what I want from my DAC is detail retrieval, minimal distortion and a high SNR. And nobody is gonna tell me that any DAC is going to do that better than the Topping, at a fraction of the cost.

So why do some folks seem to get so mesmerized by the elite DACs of old that they feel such FOMO if they don’t hand over their wallets to the manufacturers still making them? Isn’t what they are doing its own form of snake oil?

Honestly I think quite a few purists seem to disdain Topping and Gustard for including MQA decoding capability—as if that little XMOS chip brought down the quality of its surrounding components somehow. Or maybe there’s something mysteriously old-school or more sophisticated about all those resistors and the outlandish cost involved with packing them into a chassis, I don’t know.

Even Gustard is continuing to command praise for eschewing op amps and doubling up their ESS chips and transformers in their x26 pro—but given that their newer x18 scores better and sounds arguably indistinguishable, why do those engineering choices continue to justify higher prices?

Maybe someone else can explain to me why RME, Ares and Schiit maintain such a foothold on the upper echelons of DAC respectability, to the extent that hard-working folks will pass on a great sounding, reasonably-priced DAC like the Topping D90se in favor of mortgaging their houses on a Denafrips or an ADI-2. Is it just because the prestige DACs are more esoterically suitable to being illuminated with a key light on a pedestal to display for their guests? Or do they truly offer something more?
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,367
Likes
1,299
Maybe someone else can explain to me why RME, Ares and Schiit maintain such a foothold on the upper echelons of DAC respectability, to the extent that hard-working folks will pass on a great sounding, reasonably-priced DAC like the Topping D90se in favor of mortgaging their houses on a Denafrips or an ADI-2. Is it just because the prestige DACs are more esoterically suitable to being illuminated with a key light on a pedestal to display for their guests? Or do they truly offer something more?

Disclosure: my ADI-2 DAC is still being delivered, so I have not used it yet. it should have been here yesterday, but fedex seems to have fumbled the ball in Indiana.

For me, it was a choice between a D90se + A90 or an RME. Those are about the same price ($1400 for Topping, $1300 for RME). I like the single box better than two boxes. And for my desktop, having the volume control in the middle is better than on the right side where it would be partially occluded by my laptop. Yes, the A90 would have given me more watts, but I don't think I need them.

The topping E50/L50 is not an option, as it does not offer preamp functionality for the line out.

Marc
 

amper42

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
1,583
Likes
2,286
Maybe someone else can explain to me why RME, Ares and Schiit maintain such a foothold on the upper echelons of DAC respectability, to the extent that hard-working folks will pass on a great sounding, reasonably-priced DAC like the Topping D90se in favor of mortgaging their houses on a Denafrips or an ADI-2. Is it just because the prestige DACs are more esoterically suitable to being illuminated with a key light on a pedestal to display for their guests? Or do they truly offer something more?

I have the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. It's crystal clear clarity, EQ capability, Loudness feature, visual FR screen and headphone amp make it a gem among DAC's.

I read the glowing review of the D90SE and wanted to try it. I setup the Topping D90SE in an AB test with the ADI-2 and not only were all the great RME features gone but the Topping remote is absolutely awful. If you're 12 feet away from the D90SE you better pay attention when trying to change the volume because it requires a laser focus on the DAC. Not so with the ADI-2 remote. No loudness feature on the remote - it doesn't exist with D90SE same with EQ. I also found the ADI-2 offered more clarity in my setup and offers higher gain while running cool. While the clarity claim will not be believed by some - I kept switching back and forth between the DACs and easily preferred the ADI-2 for my taste. In addition, I have never experienced audio drop-outs with the optical input on the ADI-2 unlike the many reports of optical issues with the D90SE.

After testing these two, I don't see the D90SE as a serious competitor to the RME ADI-2. In my opinion, the D90SE isn't even in the same league. My guess is just about anyone whose used the RME ADI-2 features for a month and has them taken away and substituted with the D90SE will see it as a significant downgrade. If you have both it's a pretty easy choice.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom