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Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

srkbear

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For the more adventurous folks with Oppo players looking to interface it with the Topping, check out the website below. They offer two hardware mods for the BDP-103, BDP-105 and the UDP-203–one that creates an unprocessed coax or AES/EBU signal to pass on to the Topping, and another that does the same thing with I2S. They require a minimum of knowledge and no soldering—they just pop into the unit. And they bypass all of the OPPO’s downsampling or sampling rate limitations and transform it into a proper CD/SACD/blu ray audio transport, without altering the native functioning of the unit.

Thus you have the sublime CD transport mechanism Oppo is celebrated for (which they still manufacture for PS Audio!) that produces an unprocessed signal output so all the processing can be handled by the Topping. Mine is on the way…

 

Rottmannash

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Did you check what audio source was playing at the time? If you try to play DTS or Dolby 5.1 multichannel audio on your TV signal through the DAC without an HDMI extractor that has EDID management settings, you’re going to get that noise.

Sorry ahead of time for the TL/DR:

The coax outputs on most TVs, blu ray players and CD/SACD players are usually severely limited—most downsample the outgoing signal to 48 kHz or pass the stream through their own, substandard DAC prior to sending it to their coax outputs—the highest quality digital audio source is usually sent unprocessed out of their HDMI ports. Thus the optimal way to send digital signals from the source to the Topping is via an HDMI to coax extractor (such as Key Digital’s KD-FIX418A or Kanex Pro’s HAECOAX).

These devices have HDMI inputs that the TV or player plugs into; they extract the audio signal from the combined video/audio HDMI source and send it out via coax. They also have an HDMI output to pass on the isolated video signal to your TV or monitor. They have EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) settings that allow you to choose among a variety of source configurations (1080i/p, 4K etc for video signals, 2 channel PCM, Dolby/DTS or PCM multichannel for audio signals). In this way the audio source info is sent to the Topping to allow it to handshake properly with the extractor and decode the file in the format per the EDID instructions.

When I attempt to play a DTS or Dolby audio signal via my extractor on the wrong EDID setting, I’m greeted with a cacophony of noise similar to the white noise you mention. When I change the EDID setting on the extractor to the correct DTS/Dolby format, all works fine. Same with PCM 2 channel signals.

The Key Digital extractor costs $289 and has a wheel with a long list of EDID options, and although it’s a more refined unit overall, the Kanex Pro HAECOAX costs only $89 and has only one switch between two channel and multichannel audio. When you’re listening to 5.1 you turn it on, when you’re listening to 2 channel you turn it off—it’s that simple and it works perfectly. And the nice thing is that even if the Topping doesn’t play multichannel audio, the extractor senses the DAC configuration and sends a two channel signal from the 5.1 source and sounds fantastic.

Might want to explore this option—the Kanex Pro is available on Amazon and it’s all I use now. I’m getting 176 kHz or 96 kHz on all my discs, something I couldn’t get from the coax out from my Oppo player. Just make sure you get the exact model I mentioned—the HAECOAX—and not the more expensive HAECOAX3, because the latter doesn’t work. Best of luck!
Thanks. That's great info and advice. I don't typically listen to audio from the tv through the D90SE but sometimes do and was surprised the 1st time I tried it got the white noise and the 2nd time I didn't. Checked the settings in the C9 and made sure it was pass thru. Not sure what was going on that 1st time but glad it isn't happening again. Most of the time I use the HDMI out to the AVR from the C9 so don't need the D90SE for most audio but every once in awhile I will listen through it-usually a live concert on PBS to see if it yields better sound. I will check into the extractors. Clever devices for sure!
 

Eddy H.

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I just started using my Tab S7 to stream Qobuz using USB audio pro app over USB and IMO it sounds slightly better than my Node2i over coax. Has anyone else tried this?
 

Rottmannash

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I just started using my Tab S7 to stream Qobuz using USB audio pro app over USB and IMO it sounds slightly better than my Node2i over coax. Has anyone else tried this?
No. I haven't. How did you hook it up? I also use UAPP and Qobuz but run it through the 2i>D90SE then to the preamp and amp.
 

Eddy H.

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Rottmannash

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Ah, so you have a USB C to USB A cable?
 

Eddy H.

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Ah, so you have a USB C to USB A cable?
I can also play DSD files with the app. The app costs 3 or 4 bucks but it's worth every penny. It also has an MQA plug in if you're into that and a parimeteric eq plug in.
 

Eddy H.

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I can also play DSD files with the app. The app costs 3 or 4 bucks but it's worth every penny. It also has an MQA plug in if you're into that and a parimeteric eq plug in.
If I would have found this earlier it would have saved me 550$:(
 

Nicolaas

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I just started using my Tab S7 to stream Qobuz using USB audio pro app over USB and IMO it sounds slightly better than my Node2i over coax. Has anyone else tried this?
Just for fun I connected my Samsung Galaxy Tab A by means of a USB OTG cable to to my Topping D90 DAC. And I also use the USB Audio Player Pro app to play my SD and HD FLAC files. And it really sounds fantastic. I agree the USB Audio Player Pro app is worth every penny and it only costs a few euro's. Big advantage using a tablet or mobile phone with USB OTG connection to a DAC is that there will be no ground loop!
However my default streamer is a cheap Intel Pentium NUC with Linux Mint Xfce, Spotify and Audacious/ALSA.
I sometimes also use USB Audio Player Pro on my mobile phone or tablet to stream flac files to my D90 DAC via Bluetooth for background music.
 
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tomina666

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Hi,

I have a dilemma. I bought a Topping A90 from a friend. By the way, the A90 is a better amp than the Hugo2 I sold.
DAC I now use AK FUTURA SE100 with ESS SABER ES9038PRO 8channel ..
Headphones Hifiman Ananda.

But I have Hifiman Arya on the way and I would like to have everything perfect. Does it make sense to buy D90SE (maybe RME ADI-2) or won't there be a big final difference? Because Futura has ES9038PRO like a D90SE..

Maybe full balanced kombo upgrade ...
 

Dodenau

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I also received mine in the mail this Monday, and so far it is mostly fine.

But, like others have said, I am having issues with dropouts when using it with my LG OLED tv via optical. I was expecting this since people mentioned it, but I wasn't prepared for how frequent they are, typically like once a minute or so it drops out for a split second.

What I wasn't expecting was similar dropouts when using I2S out of my pi2aes board. They are much less frequent, but still present, like maybe once an hour or so.

The only dropout free input is the USB from the same raspberry pi 4 I have the pi2aes plugged into.
Same problem with lg77"oled. Gustard x26pro works and also the x16. Same problem with the smsl su9n. That could be fixed with changing DPLL from 7 to 10... Any news about that problem?
 

Rottmannash

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Same problem with lg77"oled. Gustard x26pro works and also the x16. Same problem with the smsl su9n. That could be fixed with changing DPLL from 7 to 10... Any news about that problem? I'm not having that problem with my C9.
 

headwhacker

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Hi,

I have a dilemma. I bought a Topping A90 from a friend. By the way, the A90 is a better amp than the Hugo2 I sold.
DAC I now use AK FUTURA SE100 with ESS SABER ES9038PRO 8channel ..
Headphones Hifiman Ananda.

But I have Hifiman Arya on the way and I would like to have everything perfect. Does it make sense to buy D90SE (maybe RME ADI-2) or won't there be a big final difference? Because Futura has ES9038PRO like a D90SE..

Maybe full balanced kombo upgrade ...
If you are browsing ASR long enough, your should know by now that knowing the DAC chip alone does not tell you anything about how a DAC performs.

The OCD in me tells me that D90SE is a great pair for A90 as a desktop setup. They look good together. You have a peace of mind knowing that you can use any headphones (except electrostatic types) and this pair won't break a sweat. A wire with gain which is end-of-game-ish as far as desktop DAC/AMP combo goes.

The AK Futura on the other hand is a DAP, it has a use case which the D90SE/A90 can't cover. Unless this gets measured, AK's published specs alone tells me it will not be at the same level as a D90SE/AK90 combo measurement-wise.

If you already like listening to AK Futura alone, then getting a D90SE probably won't make any difference.

As much as I want to get the D90SE/A90 combo, It makes more sense to me to get E50/L50 combo because I already have a THX 789 and I only use it to power my HE6. The rest of my headphone/iem collection is good with the E50/L50 combo. The only way I will get the A90 is if my THX break and my HE6 is still alive.
 

lam6630

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I want to install USB Player Pro on my SHIELD TV but in CHplay shield there is no. I bought it on my smart phone. Please help..
 

Digi

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D90SE flagship balanced USB DAC. It was sent to me by the company for testing and I believe costs US $899.

The D90SE comes in the same clothes as current class of Topping products which is just fine with me:

View attachment 135755

We have the usual inputs and outputs including Bluetooth:

View attachment 135756

The architecture here is based on ESS ES9038PRO DAC instead of AKM silicon. Hopefully this means better availability of parts and DACs.

Topping D90SE DAC Measurements
Out of box output voltage is our standard 4 volts but there is also a setting to adjust that to 5 volt (see test of that later). Let's start with USB input and balanced XLR output:

View attachment 135757

Oh wow! We have a record breaker here when it comes to SINAD:
View attachment 135759

View attachment 135760

The Audio Precision analyzer puts severe strain on getting such high numbers due to its own self-noise so I was surprised to see 123 dB limit broken. Distortion is down to an incredibly low -140 dB!

Switching to RCA output, we naturally lose some performance:

View attachment 135761

Noise level is kept to absolute minimum producing some of the best dynamic range numbers I have seen:

View attachment 135763

Temporarily switching to 5 volt output we get:

View attachment 135764

So not a major change but if you have an amp that can accept it, you can push your noise floor down a bit more. Remember, while distortions are hard to hear, hiss from speakers or headphones is not.

Intermodulation distortion (really the noise aspect) sets a new benchmark:

View attachment 135765

There was a time when DX3 Pro was the benchmark. See how much the D90SE beats it by. It is almost left in the dust!

Courtesy of resampling in ESS DAC, jitter is a forgotten word with either input:

View attachment 135766

Combined with the ultra noise floor, we can clearly resolve the low order bits of the 250Hz square wave at 24 bits! I had to remove the ASR logo to reveal them!

Linearity locked in and ran so perfectly, I had to scratch my eyes to believe it:

View attachment 135767

You have a choice of 7 filters and I was happy to see thee of them producing the correct filtering for 44.1 kHz sampling:

View attachment 135768

Attenuation was so good that I had to lower the bottom of the scale to show where they bottom out.

The only puzzler was THD+N versus frequency:

View attachment 135769

Seems like there is some kind of ESS signature going on with some filter setting. Getting the best performance required selecting filter #7 which has a bit of roll off in frequency response.

Multitone is nailed so hard that you could almost hear it nail screaming from being hit so hard:
View attachment 135770


Conclusions
It is 3:00am but I had to stay up and post this review. It is not every day that every barrier we have seen in DACs gets shattered to new levels. We are seeing extreme attention to every aspect of this design to squeeze this much performance out of this ESS DAC. Just when we though the race was over, here comes one more over achiever! Those of you who have made it a hobby to upgrade the latest and greatest, here is another one for you! :)

At the risk of stating the very obvious, it is my absolute pleasure to recommend the Topping D90SE.

Note: this is a new product. If you are not an early adopter type of person, you may want others to go before you. My testing is focused on performance only, not reliability or functionality.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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Merry Xmas Amir
What is type of USB port at the back of this Topping D90SE DAC. Thanks.
 

Digi

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Rottmannash

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Merry Xmas,
Could you help with the correct type or model of USB port at the back of Topping D90SE DAC? Thanks.
Type B. Topping includes the cable with the unit.
 

Eddy H.

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I'm surprised that alot of the reviewer don't have a whole lot more praise for this Dac. Maybe Topping didn't pay them as much as the others? Lol
 
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