Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[G.R.Waters]

Mine was doing the same thing. It's because you're using it as a preamp. If you set it to dac mode and use a separate preamp it doesn't do that. I'm using a pre90 with no problems anymore. Kind of a sucky deal tho.

Thanks for the reply and hint. Considering that in this 2nd system the only source used is the PC I rather live with the (small) glitch or control the volume through Roon than further extending my budget for a pre (which I don't use even in the 1st system, where the competitor RME ADI-2 sits).
May I ask if your used RCA or XLR outputs?

 

[Eddy H.]

Thanks for the reply and hint. Considering that in this 2nd system the only source used is the PC I rather live with the (small) glitch or control the volume through Roon than further extending my budget for a pre (which I don't use even in the 1st system, where the competitor RME ADI-2 sits).
May I ask if your used RCA or XLR outputs?

I'm using xlr to the pre. 5v

 

[G.R.Waters]

I'm using xlr to the pre. 5v

Thanks. Sorry, I was not clear enough. I meant: when you used the D90se as pre and experienced the noise, were you using RCA or balanced output?
I just tried as alternative to feed the D90se with a cheap MiniPC running Daphile as Roon endpoint but as far as I use USB to RCA signal the glitch sound remains consistent at any change of bitrate. Maybe balanced interconnects will do?

 

[Eddy H.]

Thanks. Sorry, I was not clear enough. I meant: when you used the D90se as pre and experienced the noise, were you using RCA or balanced output?
I just tried as alternative to feed the D90se with a cheap MiniPC running Daphile as Roon endpoint but as far as I use USB to RCA signal the glitch sound remains consistent at any change of bitrate. Maybe balanced interconnects will do?

I've tried both and it's still the same

 

[G.R.Waters]

I've tried both and it's still the same

Well, thanks anyway: you spared me the useless job of trying and set back the only pair of XLRs on the 1st system.

Tomorrow I'll try to set Roon streaming oversampled at default 96 or 192 kHz and see. Then I run out of free solutions and learn to live with the glitch, in case.

 

[Eddy H.]

Well, thanks anyway: you spared me the useless job of trying and set back the only pair of XLRs on the 1st system.

Tomorrow I'll try to set Roon streaming oversampled at default 96 or 192 kHz and see. Then I run out of free solutions and learn to live with the glitch, in case.

What do you think about the crappy remote control? I don't know why they can't make a nicer one. My 30$ Roku's remote is ten times better. And the pre90 looks the same

 

[G.R.Waters]

What do you think about the crappy remote control? I don't know why they can't make a nicer one. My 30$ Roku's remote is ten times better. And the pre90 looks the same

Another reason to have the RME in the living room main system and the D90se on the right side of my desk, at hand: practically I never use its remote... but in the trial sessions in the living room I noticed the very narrow working angle of the IR receiver. The remote itself was instead powerful enough to turn on a led stripe 3,4m high on a corner (so not direct at all), on top of my fireplace: my conclusion is the D90 IR receiver is worse than those of a 12 EUR colour led strip (transformer and remote included in the price). Anyway this can be fixed with a cheap infrared receiver/amplifier... what cannot be fixed and is there to stay is the crackling noise , as I can tell you that my last attempt on setting in Roon same oversampling rate conversion gave no result. This D90se simply despises jumping from an album to another , no matter if you stream everything at the same sample rate. Period.

 

[Orion76]

Just got a Topping D90SE in the mail from Apos. I ordered it on 12/3 and it showed up here in Illinois on 12/9. Not bad for such a long journey!

My Node 2i is connected to the Topping DAC over coax. Then RCAs out to my preamp. The Node is set to MQA external DAC, which locks in the output level at fixed. With TIDAL, I can set audio quality to Master or HiFi.

When an MQA track comes on, the Topping says MQA and then 44.1kHz. On other songs on TIDAL it will jump to MQA 96kHz. If I change the sound to HiFi, which is lossless FLAC, the display shows PCM 44.1kHz. Does it look like everything is set up properly? Seems like all is working well, but I am rather new to streaming.

And I am not used to so many settings! For example, my old Schiit Audio DAC had two buttons- power and input- compared to the Topping with 13 settings. Just want to make sure I didn't miss something. For example one time my stereo sounded like garbage. Turned out, after a power outage, the Node had reverted back to mono instead of stereo.

For what it's worth, the output is set to 4 volts and I am using filter 3 (default).

-Yeah, I know MQA is controversial, but I'm at least going to give it a try-

​

 

[Rottmannash]

Just got a Topping D90SE in the mail from Apos. I ordered it on 12/3 and it showed up here in Illinois on 12/9. Not bad for such a long journey!

My Node 2i is connected to the Topping DAC over coax. Then RCAs out to my preamp. The Node is set to MQA external DAC, which locks in the output level at fixed. With TIDAL, I can set audio quality to Master or HiFi.

When an MQA track comes on, the Topping says MQA and then 44.1kHz. On other songs on TIDAL it will jump to MQA 96kHz. If I change the sound to HiFi, which is lossless FLAC, the display shows PCM 44.1kHz. Does it look like everything is set up properly? Seems like all is working well, but I am rather new to streaming.

And I am not used to so many settings! For example, my old Schiit Audio DAC had two buttons- power and input- compared to the Topping with 13 settings. Just want to make sure I didn't miss something. For example one time my stereo sounded like garbage. Turned out, after a power outage, the Node had reverted back to mono instead of stereo.

For what it's worth, the output is set to 4 volts and I am using filter 3 (default).

-Yeah, I know MQA is controversial, but I'm at least going to give it a try-

​

I have a very similar set up- don't use Tidal tho. Do u have the D90SE set to "DAC" mode?

 

[Orion76]

Yes, it is set to DAC mode for the fixed output to my preamp.

 

[srkbear]

Another update to my workaround with an HDMI to coax extractor made by Kanex Pro to get the Topping to successfully handshake with my Sony UBP-x1000ES player without constant dropouts.

The Sony UBP-x1000ES is a fantastic Blu-ray/SACD player that is part of Sony’s higher end “Elevated Standard” audio lineup. I purchased it from Best Buy at $399 a few years back and now it’s out of production—it’s now selling on Amazon for $1399 but I’ve found some sources selling it for less pre-owned. The audio component of this player is truly premium and easily competes with my Oppo UDP 203 and BDP-105 in terms of sound quality and features.

I discovered a couple of solutions with this player that are providing very satisfying results with my setup. First, I’m using the dedicated audio HDMI out to send to the HDMI to coax extractor, which I have running into the Topping DAC with an iFi Audio iPurifier 2 in line, and I’m getting 176 kHz with exceptional sound quality and no dropouts at all. I’m also able to access the Sony’s DLNA menu to play files from my NAS, and it’s decoding all FLAC files at 176.4 or 96 kHz (depending on the source file), including MQA.

For the video HDMI output, I found an 8 inch LCD screen on Amazon for $79 that allows me to navigate the Blu ray or SACD menus and choose which audio format on the disc to send to the extractor. It successfully plays my Blu ray audio discs (such as XTC’s Skylarking), including the PCM 96/24 bit track and the DTS HD audio track. See the attached photo for how I’ve set it up.

Secondly, the Sony player includes its DSEE Extreme upscaling engine, and I just discovered that when I turn it on, the Topping is showing 96 kHz rendering for all my RED BOOK 44.1 kHz CDs. So now I’m able to play my whole library of 3,000+ CDs at 96 kHz with this extractor and DSEE—a feature not available with the direct coax output from the player. I believe that many of the Sony Blu Ray players, including the still in production UBP-x800M2 player, also includes the DSEE engine to upscale Redbook CDs at 96 kHz as well.

I’m still waiting to receive the HDMI to i2S de-embedder to compare to the HDMI to coax option and will follow up with its results once I test it out.

 

[Robin L]

For the video HDMI output, I found an 8 inch LCD screen on Amazon for $79 that allows me to navigate the Blu ray or SACD menus and choose which audio format on the disc to send to the extractor. It successfully plays my Blu ray audio discs (such as XTC’s Skylarking), including the PCM 96/24 bit track and the DTS HD audio track. See the attached photo for how I’ve set it up.

Could I have an Amazon link for the HDMI display? I've got a SACD capable Sony Blu-Ray player, want to access the displays for the menus on DVD-audio and Blu-Ray, not to mention looking at my Blu-Rays on a small screen.

 

[srkbear]

Could I have an Amazon link for the HDMI display? I've got a SACD capable Sony Blu-Ray player, want to access the displays for the menus on DVD-audio and Blu-Ray, not to mention looking at my Blu-Rays on a small screen.

Sure, here you go! Eyoyo 8 inch monitor ran me 82 bucks on Amazon and it’s a 1080P widescreen. It was one of those “delivery by 7AM” items and it does all I need it to—runs off a 5V power adapter and has an HDMI input. Since all I needed it for was to see what I was doing on my blu ray player (adjust settings, access menus, audio selection) I went for this over the pricier 4K alternatives.

If you use that Sony see if it has the DSEE option and turn it on!

Here’s the link:

Eyoyo 8 inch Small HDMI LCD Monitor, Portable 1280x720 16:9 IPS Metal Housing Screen Support HDMI/VGA/AV/BNC Input with Wall Bracket&Remote Control for PC, CCTV,Security Camera,Raspberry pi Computer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FP2F9X...abc_ANSNNFZ4P13CC1CTAKET?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Eddy H.]

Just got a Topping D90SE in the mail from Apos. I ordered it on 12/3 and it showed up here in Illinois on 12/9. Not bad for such a long journey!

My Node 2i is connected to the Topping DAC over coax. Then RCAs out to my preamp. The Node is set to MQA external DAC, which locks in the output level at fixed. With TIDAL, I can set audio quality to Master or HiFi.

When an MQA track comes on, the Topping says MQA and then 44.1kHz. On other songs on TIDAL it will jump to MQA 96kHz. If I change the sound to HiFi, which is lossless FLAC, the display shows PCM 44.1kHz. Does it look like everything is set up properly? Seems like all is working well, but I am rather new to streaming.

And I am not used to so many settings! For example, my old Schiit Audio DAC had two buttons- power and input- compared to the Topping with 13 settings. Just want to make sure I didn't miss something. For example one time my stereo sounded like garbage. Turned out, after a power outage, the Node had reverted back to mono instead of stereo.

For what it's worth, the output is set to 4 volts and I am using filter 3 (default).

-Yeah, I know MQA is controversial, but I'm at least going to give it a try-

​

You should set it to 5v for better SNR.

 

[srkbear]

You should set it to 5v for better SNR.

I second that and I would use filter 7 over the default of three. To my ears it’s the most resolving with the smoothest high end; I came to this choice on the advice of many reviews of the D90se I read before purchasing it.

And if you’re not using Bluetooth, turn it off; similarly, if you’re only using the RCA inputs, turn off the XLR (and vice versa). I’ve also found the DAC output mode (over the Pre) to give me the best S/N ratio.

 

[Orion76]

Bluetooth is off, I am RCA only so XLR is off. Will definitely tinker with the 4v vs 5v and filter 3 vs filter 7. Thanks everyone.

It's so nice to have a DAC like this in my home stereo. Last time I had an external DAC in my main room was well over 20 years ago. Audio Alchemy Digital Decoding Engine 3.0, if I remember right.

 

[Rottmannash]

Update on LG C9 > optical >D90SE. When I first tried playing the audio from the tv through the D90SE all I got was white noise. The past few days it's been working fine. Not sure what changed but it's locking on the signal from the tv w/o issue. Haven't tried it with my BluRay player's optical output but will this weekend.

 

[srkbear]

Bluetooth is off, I am RCA only so XLR is off. Will definitely tinker with the 4v vs 5v and filter 3 vs filter 7. Thanks everyone.

It's so nice to have a DAC like this in my home stereo. Last time I had an external DAC in my main room was well over 20 years ago. Audio Alchemy Digital Decoding Engine 3.0, if I remember right.

If you have a reasonably high-performing amp (and it doesn’t take much), going up to 5V will give you a considerably higher amount of clean headroom, for both the XLRs and the RCA outputs. I’m not sure why the default isn’t 5V—most high end DACs are moving to this voltage output.

With my Pro iCAN Signature I can reduce the volume from about 12 o’clock to 9 o’clock and achieve the same comfortable volume level with considerably more punch in the bass, with plenty of room to go before clipping (I actually can’t get it to clip within comfortable listening ranges; I wouldn’t even dare risk my ears to try it!).

This is a setting I would place first among the other tweaks and adjustments.

 

[srkbear]

Just got a Topping D90SE in the mail from Apos. I ordered it on 12/3 and it showed up here in Illinois on 12/9. Not bad for such a long journey!

My Node 2i is connected to the Topping DAC over coax. Then RCAs out to my preamp. The Node is set to MQA external DAC, which locks in the output level at fixed. With TIDAL, I can set audio quality to Master or HiFi.

When an MQA track comes on, the Topping says MQA and then 44.1kHz. On other songs on TIDAL it will jump to MQA 96kHz. If I change the sound to HiFi, which is lossless FLAC, the display shows PCM 44.1kHz. Does it look like everything is set up properly? Seems like all is working well, but I am rather new to streaming.

And I am not used to so many settings! For example, my old Schiit Audio DAC had two buttons- power and input- compared to the Topping with 13 settings. Just want to make sure I didn't miss something. For example one time my stereo sounded like garbage. Turned out, after a power outage, the Node had reverted back to mono instead of stereo.

For what it's worth, the output is set to 4 volts and I am using filter 3 (default).

-Yeah, I know MQA is controversial, but I'm at least going to give it a try-

​

I would check the original sample rate on Tidal. There are quite a few “Tidal Masters” that are only mastered in 44,1 kHz. If you have Roon you can verify the sampling rate of the source file. This has caused me confusion on more than one occasion until I figured it out.

Tidal has a spectrum of sample rates on their Masters tier that range from 44.1 to 96 to 192. Have yet to see 48 but there may be some out there. If your DAC is showing 96 kHz on any files and then changes to 44.1 kHz on others without any setting changes, I bet this is what is going on.

There are some masters that were recorded digitally back in the day at 44.1 kHz (Dire Straits “Brothers in Arms” and Billy Joel’s “Nylon Curtain” are two examples), and thus there’s no way for subsequent masters to harvest any sampling rates higher than what was laid down in the recording stage. The upside is that even if it’s showing 44.1, you still may be getting 24 bit (over the Red Book 16 bit).

Finally, if there’s a period after the MQA logo on the DAC screen, that’s “MQA Studio” and there’s theoretically no higher resolution master available. “Studio” implies first provenance of the Master, meaning it’s sampled from the best original master source available and approved by either the artist, producer, or last surviving engineer involved with the original recording. That’s what the folks at MQA claim anyway…

 

[srkbear]

Update on LG C9 > optical >D90SE. When I first tried playing the audio from the tv through the D90SE all I got was white noise. The past few days it's been working fine. Not sure what changed but it's locking on the signal from the tv w/o issue. Haven't tried it with my BluRay player's optical output but will this weekend.

Did you check what audio source was playing at the time? If you try to play DTS or Dolby 5.1 multichannel audio on your TV signal through the DAC without an HDMI extractor that has EDID management settings, you’re going to get that noise.

Sorry ahead of time for the TL/DR:

The coax outputs on most TVs, blu ray players and CD/SACD players are usually severely limited—most downsample the outgoing signal to 48 kHz or pass the stream through their own, substandard DAC prior to sending it to their coax outputs—the highest quality digital audio source is usually sent unprocessed out of their HDMI ports. Thus the optimal way to send digital signals from the source to the Topping is via an HDMI to coax extractor (such as Key Digital’s KD-FIX418A or Kanex Pro’s HAECOAX).

These devices have HDMI inputs that the TV or player plugs into; they extract the audio signal from the combined video/audio HDMI source and send it out via coax. They also have an HDMI output to pass on the isolated video signal to your TV or monitor. They have EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) settings that allow you to choose among a variety of source configurations (1080i/p, 4K etc for video signals, 2 channel PCM, Dolby/DTS or PCM multichannel for audio signals). In this way the audio source info is sent to the Topping to allow it to handshake properly with the extractor and decode the file in the format per the EDID instructions.

When I attempt to play a DTS or Dolby audio signal via my extractor on the wrong EDID setting, I’m greeted with a cacophony of noise similar to the white noise you mention. When I change the EDID setting on the extractor to the correct DTS/Dolby format, all works fine. Same with PCM 2 channel signals.

The Key Digital extractor costs $289 and has a wheel with a long list of EDID options, and although it’s a more refined unit overall, the Kanex Pro HAECOAX costs only $89 and has only one switch between two channel and multichannel audio. When you’re listening to 5.1 you turn it on, when you’re listening to 2 channel you turn it off—it’s that simple and it works perfectly. And the nice thing is that even if the Topping doesn’t play multichannel audio, the extractor senses the DAC configuration and sends a two channel signal from the 5.1 source and sounds fantastic.

Might want to explore this option—the Kanex Pro is available on Amazon and it’s all I use now. I’m getting 176 kHz or 96 kHz on all my discs, something I couldn’t get from the coax out from my Oppo player. Just make sure you get the exact model I mentioned—the HAECOAX—and not the more expensive HAECOAX3, because the latter doesn’t work. Best of luck!