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Topping D90SE, playing on optical

Dgob

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Hi All,

I am considering returning to the Topping D90SE, Pre90 and Ext90 as my ultimate setup. However, I cannot use the "optical" option to play TV through my speakers without the sound continually dropping out. I have seen another thread in which someone in America suggested that using a Kanex Pro HAECOAX HDMI Embedder overcomes this issue. However, this is not available in the UK and so I was wondering if anyone in England/UK has used an alternative (OR anyone from anywhere else has a suggestion of how) to overcome this issue? All responses greatly appreciated.

Incidentally, the same problem occurred with the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, Serene combo. However, that offers the option of simply turning off PLL and this resolves the problem. No such option seems to exist on the Topping equipment!?
 
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amper42

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Hi All,

I am considering returning to the Topping D90SE, Pre90 and Ext90 as my ultimate setup. However, I cannot use the "optical" option to play TV through my speakers without the sound continually dropping out. I have seen another thread in which someone in America suggested that using a Kanex Pro HAECOAX HDMI Embedder overcomes this issue. However, this is not available in the UK and so I was wondering if anyone in England/UK has used an alternative (OR anyone from anywhere else has a suggestion of how) to overcome this issue? All responses greatly appreciated.

Incidentally, the same problem occurred with the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, Serene combo. However, that offers the option of simply turning off PLL and this resolves the problem. No such option seems to exist on the Topping equipment!?

Get the RME ADI-2 DAC. Your problems disappear and you do not need a pre-amp.
 

AudioStudies

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RME DAC is utterly fantastic. Sounds great, and more features than any DAC that I am aware of, and to think it also serves as a headphone amp and preamp.
 

VintageFlanker

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I have seen another thread in which someone in America suggested that using a Kanex Pro HAECOAX HDMI Embedder overcomes this issue.
That is completely unacceptable. Are we talking about some 899€ DAC that just cannot work properly through optical out of the box?! o_O

If your D90SE is under warranty, you should ask for a free repair ASAP. If whatever your dealer or Topping iself cannot solve this issue, then you should seriously think about buying something else. Maybe a manufacturer that does care much more about having everything working flawlessly, instead of focuses on some useless 3dB extra SINAD.

My two cents.
 

Ryeno

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SMSL DACs have a DPLL setting to fix this issue. Maybe ask Topping for a FW update?

You could also try an external optical to coax converter box.
 
OP
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Dgob

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That is completely unacceptable. Are we talking about some 899€ DAC that just cannot work properly through optical out of the box?! o_O

If your D90SE is under warranty, you should ask for a free repair ASAP. If whatever your dealer or Topping iself cannot solve this issue, then you should seriously think about buying something else. Maybe a manufacturer that does care much more about having everything working flawlessly, instead of focuses on some useless 3dB extra SINAD.

My two cents.
Thanks for the suggestion although I do already own the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE dac and the Holo Audio Serene preamp. To me, these are similar to tube/valve based gear - in that they reproduce richer midrange detail and thereby give a more prominent sense regarding imaging and certain aspects of timbre. However, as with the older technology that preceded R2R dacs, absolute accuracy and the loss of information/detail remains an issue for me. If I listen to something such as Sonny Rollins 'Way Out West' album (for example) the loss of audible background conversations (ironically) proves a distraction from my full immersion in the musical event. Almost like that adage about "once you've heard it, you can't unhear it"!

The Topping dac consistently provides all that resides on a source but, yes, its optical output has problems with clocks from certain TV's. Yet, as I said, the same problem exists with the Holo Audio gear except that those provide the work around of switching off PLL. Sadly my warrantee on my Topping gear ran out quite some time ago and so free replacement is not an option. What I'm really hoping for is a work around that just enables the optical on the D90SE to make the necessary connection without affecting any other aspect of its performance.
 
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Dgob

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Have you tried other DACs to be sure the problem is the D90? Also other cables?
Thanks for the suggestion, but as I said above... Along with that, I also had the same problem with my Gustard X26 Pro - which is a far more acceptable alternative to the D90SE for me.
 
OP
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Dgob

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Get the RME ADI-2 DAC. Your problems disappear and you do not need a pre-amp.
Thanks for the suggestion, I have no real knowledge around the RME but I will get on researching it. Given my noted experience with alternatives, I do hope its measurements will match those for the Topping. I suppose that's not so surprising, given where we are. :)

Regarding the preamp, I do use analogue for my vinyl playback. Will that be accommodated by the ADI-2 without a preamp? I ask because I was recently informed that the Genelec 86361A's will soon be introducing their own built-in dac option and so I would not need a dac or preamp. That would have been my ultimate choice were it not for the blessed vinyl demand!
 
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Dgob

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SMSL DACs have a DPLL setting to fix this issue. Maybe ask Topping for a FW update?

You could also try an external optical to coax converter box.
Excellent, this is the sort of thing that I had in mind. Could you suggest such a converter box?
 
OP
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Dgob

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Excellent, this is the sort of thing that I had in mind. Could you suggest such a converter box?
No need to answer my seemingly naive question. I ended up getting the following:

PROZOR Digital Coaxial to Optical SPDIF Toslink Converter with Optical Cable and Coaxial Cable 192KHz Bi-directional Digital Audio Converter

Many thanks for the kind advice.
 

kenexcelon

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No need to answer my seemingly naive question. I ended up getting the following:

PROZOR Digital Coaxial to Optical SPDIF Toslink Converter with Optical Cable and Coaxial Cable 192KHz Bi-directional Digital Audio Converter

Many thanks for the kind advice.

Did this seem to work out well?
 
OP
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Dgob

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Did this seem to work out well?
Sorry, it did not work out - although it did seem to make the output more dynamic/loud. I still experienced the drop out around once every 15 seconds (microscopically brief as the duration of these dropouts were!).

I am now going for the Kanex HDMI (de-embedder) convertor along with the eARC option on my TV. This should arrive in the next 10 days and I will then report back after trying it out.
 
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Pluto

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This all points to the optical output from your TV being sub-standard. How long is the cable run between TV and DAC? Are you certain the TV is producing a clean optical stream? Many TVs do not, and there is little that can be done other than replace the TV.

I have a 4.5m optical run between TV and DAC (longer than the specification permits), with nary a problem into various kinds of DAC including a couple of Topping units. Are you using a decent quality optical cable (i.e. one of at least 4mm diameter, not necessarily a supposedly ‘audiophile approved’ type)? Are the connectors properly home?

You need to check all this basic stuff before blaming the DAC, especially if the DAC's coaxial input works OK. I say this because the signal processing is often shared between optical and co-ax, the output of the optical receiver being a signal designed to feed the same circuit as the latter.
 
OP
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Dgob

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This all points to the optical output from your TV being sub-standard. How long is the cable run between TV and DAC? Are you certain the TV is producing a clean optical stream? Many TVs do not, and there is little that can be done other than replace the TV.

I have a 4.5m optical run between TV and DAC (longer than the specification permits), with nary a problem into various kinds of DAC including a couple of Topping units. Are you using a decent quality optical cable (i.e. one of at least 4mm diameter, not necessarily a supposedly ‘audiophile approved’ type)? Are the connectors properly home?

You need to check all this basic stuff before blaming the DAC, especially if the DAC's coaxial input works OK. I say this because the signal processing is often shared between optical and co-ax, the output of the optical receiver being a signal designed to feed the same circuit as the latter.
Thanks, but I think I've addressed these points and suggestions as made above, and in line with that I would just note that I have at no point sought to say anything that could be misinterpreted as my "blaming" the DAC.

The issue with Toshiba link (toslink) cables has been well rehearsed elsewhere, for example:


but apart from opting for a D90LE, this forum seems to be the first place to actually supply potential solutions.
 

sq225917

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People seem want to lay the blame at the dac in these instances, nice to see its understood its the TV thats out of spec and not the dac.

Though a dpll setting would be nice

Obviously what you need is a fancy power cable on the TV, that'll sort it out....

;)
 
OP
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Dgob

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People seem want to lay the blame at the dac in these instances, nice to see its understood its the TV thats out of spec and not the dac.

Though a dpll setting would be nice
Precisely, totally in keeping with my posts on this thread. As noted, the only DAC that I've owned that has a way around this clocking issue is the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE - with its option for turning PLL off. And that does work, albeit at the cost of giving up on the absolute fidelity of the D90SE.

Vis the cables :)
 
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Pluto

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its option for turning PLL off
Just for the sake of accuracy, it's not a case of the PLL being on or off. It's usually a matter of altering the damping within the loop. It's a compromise, at one extreme, between –

i) low damping causing the DAC to remain locked to every little twitch in the incoming stream, but allowing concomitant jitter to pass through or, at the other…

ii) high damping (analogous to a heavy turntable) which is largely impervious to small perturbations within the incoming stream but takes significant time to relock under conditions other than total stability.
 
OP
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Dgob

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Just for the sake of accuracy, it's not a case of the PLL being on or off. It's usually a matter of altering the damping within the loop. It's a compromise, at one extreme, between –

i) low damping causing the DAC to remain locked to every little twitch in the incoming stream, but allowing concomitant jitter to pass through or, at the other…

ii) high damping (analogous to a heavy turntable) which is largely impervious to small perturbations within the incoming stream but takes significant time to relock under conditions other than total stability.
:)
 
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