TOPPING D90 III Sabre DAC Review

[fabriciom]

@fabriciom
Sharing advice that I got here and ignored (but I learned my lesson) Spend what you can on good speakers. Then look for the cheapest Class D amp in the blue area of the chart that comfortably meets the power needs for your speakers. Last, buy the cheapest DAC from the blue part of the charts. DACs are the lowest rung to improvement. I have a E1DA 9038D headphone DAC / Amp which i tried in place of my E30 and E50. That was so astonishingly good, it was almost comical.

My personal set up's: I run (original) Topping E50 DAC for main set up and an original Topping E30 for another room. TWICE, was drawn like a moth to making online orders. First was a Topping D90SE, then a year later a SMSL SU9. Whilst I am lucky to be able to afford them, each went back to Amazon. Amir's measurements are spot on. These are amazing DACs, but beyond my ability, or of any of my pals, to hear a difference. I REALLY REALLY tried to hear an improvement. At the time, I'd have kept the 'upgrade' if one of my pals could hear a difference that I couldn't.

All my problems are related to where I live. I cant have speakers. I live in an apartment the size of a shoe box. Best I can do are headphones.

Any DAC that I buy will be better than what I currently have.

 

[Bob101]

In some reviews, he is honest when afirms that on basic sets (and rooms too), diferences are hard to perceive. That is why I resist on to upgrade from my Topping E50.

My neighbour bought an E50, around the same time I did, on my advice, and uses it daily. I bought a D70pro Sabre when it came out, because i needed more functionality, not because the E50 was disappointing. A while back I lent him my D70pro sabre for evaluation. He is still not convinced that in an average living room any modern DAC that is transparent, makes, if you're generous, maybe, less then 1% of your sound(-quality). I used the output of my e2x2 interface for a while. He listens to headphones exclusively. After a few weeks of him going back and forth between my D70 and his E50 he gave it back to me, and said: there is a difference, but admitted that sometimes he thought he was listening to the D70, while he was actually using the E50. I got used to the poor Sinad (100 or so?) of my e2x2 very fast. There are differences, but they are so subtle you won't be able to differentiate between an E50 and a D70, or D90 for that matter. Unless your living room is a mastering studio... Stick with the E50.

 

[NHL99]

My neighbour bought an E50, around the same time I did, on my advice, and uses it daily. I bought a D70pro Sabre when it came out, because i needed more functionality, not because the E50 was disappointing. A while back I lent him my D70pro sabre for evaluation. He is still not convinced that in an average living room any modern DAC that is transparent, makes, if you're generous, maybe, less then 1% of your sound(-quality). I used the output of my e2x2 interface for a while. He listens to headphones exclusively. After a few weeks of him going back and forth between my D70 and his E50 he gave it back to me, and said: there is a difference, but admitted that sometimes he thought he was listening to the D70, while he was actually using the E50. I got used to the poor Sinad (100 or so?) of my e2x2 very fast. There are differences, but they are so subtle you won't be able to differentiate between an E50 and a D70, or D90 for that matter. Unless your living room is a mastering studio... Stick with the E50.

In double-blind listening tests, humans generally cannot detect distortion or noise once SINAD exceeds about 85–90 dB (THD+N ≈ 0.005% or better).
Above ~100 dB SINAD, performance differences are entirely inaudible in all practical cases.

 

[Bob101]

In double-blind listening tests, humans generally cannot detect distortion or noise once SINAD exceeds about 85–90 dB (THD+N ≈ 0.005% or better).
Above ~100 dB SINAD, performance differences are entirely inaudible in all practical cases.

I forgot to put the poor Sinad of the e2x2 in ironic "quote-unquote" marks...

 

[MLaranjeiras]

My neighbour bought an E50, around the same time I did, on my advice, and uses it daily. I bought a D70pro Sabre when it came out, because i needed more functionality, not because the E50 was disappointing. A while back I lent him my D70pro sabre for evaluation. He is still not convinced that in an average living room any modern DAC that is transparent, makes, if you're generous, maybe, less then 1% of your sound(-quality). I used the output of my e2x2 interface for a while. He listens to headphones exclusively. After a few weeks of him going back and forth between my D70 and his E50 he gave it back to me, and said: there is a difference, but admitted that sometimes he thought he was listening to the D70, while he was actually using the E50. I got used to the poor Sinad (100 or so?) of my e2x2 very fast. There are differences, but they are so subtle you won't be able to differentiate between an E50 and a D70, or D90 for that matter. Unless your living room is a mastering studio... Stick with the E50.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

He is doing his job in my entry-level set

 

[fwwwk]

topping you need to do this dac with sub out, decent LR4 crossover and delay integration + room correction software

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

topping you need to do this dac with sub out, decent LR4 crossover and delay integration + room correction software

You could always get a miniDSP Flex (digital output version) and attach the main speaker output (outputs 1 & 2) to this DAC, then use a separate DAC from the second output (outputs 3 & 4) for the subwoofer(s). Even better if you get the DIRAC Live license for the miniDSP, which we can be like 99% sure Topping would never do anyway with any of their devices.

 

[Chanur]

Would something like this have an audible improvement over the DAC from a streamer say a WiiM or Bluesound?

 

[antcollinet]

Would something like this have an audible improvement over the DAC from a streamer say a WiiM or Bluesound?

Depends on how badly the streamer performs.

But for the vast majority of cases - no.

Even average DACs perform well enough to be audibly indistinguishable from the best performers in real world listening.

Performance has to be really bad - say only the worst ones in the red sections of the chart - to make a meaningful audible difference.


And in particular - the Wiim pro plus and newer all perform up there with the best separate DACs

 

[Chanur]

Depends on how badly the streamer performs.

But for the vast majority of cases - no.

Even average DACs perform well enough to be audibly indistinguishable from the best performers in real world listening.

Performance has to be really bad - say only the worst ones in the red sections of the chart - to make a meaningful audible difference.


And in particular - the Wiim pro plus and newer all perform up there with the best separate DACs

Not sure I see a purpose for this then. Doesn't have enough inputs to really be a preamp either. Just wanted to double check. Thank you.

 

[blanc]

My D90III Sabre has an issue of C1/C2 storage. With long time pressing on C1/C2 I can see „C1/C2 saved“ on the screen but C1/C2 is not called out with short press on them. Any tips?