TOPPING D90 III Sabre DAC Review

[Lupin]

TOPPING has introduced the D90 III Discrete , priced at $999. As the name suggests, the D90 III Discrete is a 1-bit DAC built using discrete components

But still transparent is transparent, being a 1-bit discrete DAC doesn't make it more transparent.
10 band PEQ is a nice touch though. Still $999 is waaaay more than I'm willing to spend on a DAC.

 

[EJ3]

But still transparent is transparent, being a 1-bit discrete DAC doesn't make it more transparent.
10 band PEQ is a nice touch though. Still $999 is waaaay more than I'm willing to spend on a DAC.

That is you but perhaps not me.

 

[SAV1972]

But still transparent is transparent, being a 1-bit discrete DAC doesn't make it more transparent.
10 band PEQ is a nice touch though. Still $999 is waaaay more than I'm willing to spend on a DAC.

Now I have Topping dx9 15th Anniversary. Superior dac & pre

 

[fametrano]

This was missing on the D90SE/LE

God forbids me, the lack of a 12v trigger is the only reason pushing me to upgrade from my DA90SE. But I will resist...

Or maybe just capitulate for the D90 III Discrete.

 

[johny_2000]

But still transparent is transparent, being a 1-bit discrete DAC doesn't make it more transparent.
10 band PEQ is a nice touch though. Still $999 is waaaay more than I'm willing to spend on a DAC.

In terms of specs, I don't see any improvement over the D50 III unit. Different approach (1-bit discrete DAC vs. Hyperstream IV integrated multiple 1-bit DACs), same results.
In terms of price, the 5x difference (D50 III ~$200 vs. D90 III Discrete ~$1000) is not in favor of the D90 III Discrete.

Topping PEQs are a nice thing they recently introduced, but at the moment they slightly degrade the output characteristics of the devices.
Some firmware tweaking may be needed, if that is even possible.

 

[Mr.A]

Wiim Ultra vs Wiim Ultra + Topping D90 III Sabre (Comparison)

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-ultra-external-dac-blind-test-results.57677/

 

[SAV1972]

I had Topping D90SE, E70v, SMSL d400ex in my setup. A month ago I purchased Topping dx9 15th Anniversary. I disabled all the features that I don't use. In preamp and DAC mode, I am completely satisfied with this Topping model. The search for a DAC and preamp for my setup is over.

 

[Architectorus]

I have VMV d1SE with single ESS chip. It has measures pretty same, or not? Wondering what benefits in terms of quality brings the 2nd chip? Is it audible somehow?

 

[Jimster480]

I have VMV d1SE with single ESS chip. It has measures pretty same, or not? Wondering what benefits in terms of quality brings the 2nd chip? Is it audible somehow?

I would say that overall it basically adds nothing whatsoever. Honestly, it is supposed to generally improve performance, but we have hit the point where even a simple single chip is more than performance enough for basically every single scenario, so I really don't see the point in something like this.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

That is why I stucked on my acclaimed Topping E50 and keep the strong impression that further upgrades will make me give a side step (I hope I’d be intirely wrong, of course)

 

[Svensson]

That is why I stucked on my acclaimed Topping E50 and keep the strong impression that further upgrades will make me give a side step (I hope I’d be intirely wrong, of course)

I would say that you are correct. I "upgraded" from an E50 to a D90SE. No difference that either I or my friends can detect. No difference on my system, or on my friends more resolving setup / room. My E50 replaced the time served E30 in my other room. I donated the E30 to another friend. I had thought (convinced myself) that there was an advantage. Whenever we re-check, we detect no difference with our ears, our system and our rooms. The D90SE looks very nice though!

 

[blanc]

This device gets very warm after some time on. I read oscillators depend on temperature very much. Do you think this dependency will impact performance? Are there any tests on this issue?

 

[unpluggged]

I read oscillators depend on temperature very much.

And I read temperature-compensated oscillators have been already invented.

 

[Bob101]

I would say that you are correct. I "upgraded" from an E50 to a D90SE. No difference that either I or my friends can detect. No difference on my system, or on my friends more resolving setup / room. My E50 replaced the time served E30 in my other room. I donated the E30 to another friend. I had thought (convinced myself) that there was an advantage. Whenever we re-check, we detect no difference with our ears, our system and our rooms. The D90SE looks very nice though!

I replaced my E50 not with a D90 but with a, comparable, D70pro Sabre (which I find looks better than the D90, because I switched from integrated to power amp and needed a preamp-DAC with a rotary knob and more in/out capability. My First DAC, a Toping E30 I switched very quickly for an E50, after hearing them side-by-side. I do not have golden ears whatsoever, but the E30 (first gen) sounded 'really' (audible for me, that is) harsh in comparison to the E50. If it weren't for my change in setup, I'd still be happy with my E50. A friend of mine still has his, and brought it over for an evening. Switching between them there is a difference, but transparent is transparent. I am sure there are people that can consistently tell the difference between them, but after less than a few minutes of listening that difference becomes the new normal. Also, I don't live in a mastering studio

 

[maruko]

Hi everyone,

From what I have understood so far, DR and SNR are usually the same (except in recordings, cause the 1,76 dB quantization distorsion constant). So i have always seen these two values match in the manufacturer specifications. Including the dac object of this thread. But looking at the specifications of the "Discrete" variant of the D90 III, you read:

SNR @ A-Weighted	127dB @ 1kHz
Dynamic range @ A-Weighted	126dB @ 1kHz

What is this difference due to?

 

[MLaranjeiras]

I replaced my E50 not with a D90 but with a, comparable, D70pro Sabre (which I find looks better than the D90, because I switched from integrated to power amp and needed a preamp-DAC with a rotary knob and more in/out capability. My First DAC, a Toping E30 I switched very quickly for an E50, after hearing them side-by-side. I do not have golden ears whatsoever, but the E30 (first gen) sounded 'really' (audible for me, that is) harsh in comparison to the E50. If it weren't for my change in setup, I'd still be happy with my E50. A friend of mine still has his, and brought it over for an evening. Switching between them there is a difference, but transparent is transparent. I am sure there are people that can consistently tell the difference between them, but after less than a few minutes of listening that difference becomes the new normal. Also, I don't live in a mastering studio

It is much better to invest on speakers to have real gains

 

[eliash]

Probably because the Dynamic range is connected to signal ratios only, whereas the SNR incorporates the residual noise, which should be lower than the lowest possible signal...but why this is happens to be just one dB is also not clear to me...

 

[staticV3]

Hi everyone,

From what I have understood so far, DR and SNR are usually the same (except in recordings, cause the 1,76 dB quantization distorsion constant). So i have always seen these two values match in the manufacturer specifications. Including the dac object of this thread. But looking at the specifications of the "Discrete" variant of the D90 III, you read:

SNR @ A-Weighted	127dB @ 1kHz
Dynamic range @ A-Weighted	126dB @ 1kHz

What is this difference due to?

SNR measures noise in the absence of a signal whereas DR measures it in the presence of a signal.

SNR>DR usually indicates the presence of a noise gate/auto mute circuit that mutes the DAC when nothing is playing, but there may well be other causes with Topping's unorthodox discrete ∆Σ design.

 

[maruko]

SNR measures noise in the absence of a signal whereas DR measures it in the presence of a signal.

SNR>DR usually indicates the presence of a noise gate/auto mute circuit that mutes the DAC when nothing is playing, but there may well be other causes with Topping's unorthodox discrete ∆Σ design.

But, shouldn't SNR be measured with a 1 kHz tone? So something is playing?
And isn't SNR the ratio of signal power to noise power?
Confused

 

[staticV3]

But, shouldn't SNR be measured with a 1 kHz tone? So something is playing?
And isn't SNR the ratio of signal power to noise power?
Confused

SNR is the ratio of full-scale output amplitude to output amplitude during silence.

Nothing is playing while the Noise part is being measured.