TOPPING D90 III Sabre DAC Review

[Sokel]

I do believe the future of the DAC is to reinvent the stereo preamp providing one or two analog inputs, and an auto detect for phono. I do not think that this is a way to the bottom, as we have plenty of sub 500 , and some sub 300 usd/eu capable of about equal performance but without the HDMI shapped input.

If the targeted market is the crowd that goes for oversized enclosures and feel good polished aluminum, they should charge much more. Geez, look at ps Audio and their flagship unit, 8000 usd/eu for a unit that measures worst than any decent 100 usd/eu unit.

Everyone is free to choose what they like and I agree, for some people looks are as important as performance, but if topping wants to lead, they should look at adding at most 30-50 usd/eu to the BOM and include an ADC. If arilic can do it for less than 100 usd/eu but poorly (ADC/DAC/HDMI/remote) I am sure that ,given the desire Topping could do it for about 1000 usd/eu and have a superb analog input.

It doesn't has to be 8000$,Okto is way lower,measures nice and it has killer looks.

As for the ADC,combined performance is not as easy as a DAC,look what they did with EX2x2 for example.
Lots of functionality but complexity at low price comes it's penalties,"only" 100db SINAD.
Let alone the problems that can come with PEQ,miniDSP is still trying to fix stuff after all this years.

One can choose of course.

 

[Guilherme_BR]

I'm struggling to see what the "upgrade" is for this vs. the D70 Pro. MQA on the D90 if you need it; but the D70 has the new graphical screen which the D90 does not. $200 difference.

D70 Pro: https://www.tpdz.net/products
D90III: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/1141825.html

And D70 Pro has better results in most tests, like Multitone and thd+N vs frequency. I really don't see any reason to buy D90 III. Multitone test is more important than Sinad at 1khz in my opinion.

 

[Antagron]

Amir's measurements have done a great favor for consumers and for the manufacturers who make well engineered DACs. This site provides invaluable education. It has literally changed the industry for the better.

However, having consumers and manufactures who now chase SINAD is also largely due to this website. IMO, the SINAD rankings should be retired and the measurements should now simply say that the SINAD passes (ie is transparent) or fails. A lot of consumers seem to either not understand or not fully believe that these DACs are transparent. As a result, we see more products like the this one, which chases SINAD* rather than providing meaningful upgrades.

* See Topping's product page. They tout the SNR/SINAD/THD+N many times. They also make claims about the DAC chip. Almost no one should care about the chip, but they do because they don't fully believe that these DACs are transparent.

This is a genius idea. You pass the bar or we say by how much you failed but if you pass you pass. Did you pass the bar (law)? No one asks by how much. What you measure is what you get!

 

[CarbonMakerU]

Incremental improvements over far less expensive models in their own lineup offers no real value in the product. And at this price point, spring for the RME which just plain offers a lot more actual features vs. inaudible measurements. You also won't be second guessing your purchase when Topping comes out with this units replacement in two weeks or so.....

 

[delta76]

I'm struggling to see what the "upgrade" is for this vs. the D70 Pro. MQA on the D90 if you need it; but the D70 has the new graphical screen which the D90 does not. $200 difference.

D70 Pro: https://www.tpdz.net/products
D90III: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/1141825.html

because there is none that worth "upgrading". Topping failed to position their products in a reasonable/sensible manner, as usual

 

[frabor]

It doesn't has to be 8000$,Okto is way lower,measures nice and it has killer looks.

As for the ADC,combined performance is not as easy as a DAC,look what they did with EX2x2 for example.
Lots of functionality but complexity at low price comes it's penalties,"only" 100db SINAD.
Let alone the problems that can come with PEQ,miniDSP is still trying to fix stuff after all this years.

One can choose of course.

I was describing my choicest design, but if the tech exists for the cosmos ADC to get ap555 close to -130dB performance for a low price, an ADC capable of 100 dB or similar on a different board or on the same with split power planes and ground planes should be doable. Once digitized, gets routed o the digital input switch already built in. That is the direction I wish tech would go but I am just one consumer. Regarding the dsp, that is another ball game and still and evolving field.

We have got all spoiled since since the release of the ODAC up to a point and what I do agree is that 1000 usd/EU for a device that produces a signal so clean that is almost at the level of the best measuring apparatus is amazing, but is in the human condition to ask for more and better, such as moving in two hundred years from horses to ubiquitous jetliners.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

If you don't have a performant DAC and want to get one, there is value in knowing you bought the best there is.

I completely, 100%, absolutely agree with that statement.

However, I also feel I can completely agree with the following statement without any cognitive dissonance.

"If all you're looking for is a transparent DAC, rather than bragging rights, you can save a lot of money. And there's an argument that we should be far more interested in audio quality than bragging rights."

At Amazon UK at the moment, this DAC is £900.

The Topping D10 Balanced is £140 and I believe completely transparent.

 

[abbazaba]

Great review as always. I like that Topping is still pushing constant improvement, but it will probably be a long time before I get upgradeitis from the D70 Pro Sabre + LA90D... I can't imagine a better setup for my desk. Only question is if I can rationalize purchasing a second LA90D when they inevitably disco them to get that crazy bridged power as a future option to play with.

 

[Chagall]

I completely, 100%, absolutely agree with that statement.

However, I also feel I can completely agree with the following statement without any cognitive dissonance.

"If all you're looking for is a transparent DAC, rather than bragging rights, you can save a lot of money. And there's an argument that we should be far more interested in audio quality than bragging rights."

At Amazon UK at the moment, this DAC is £900.

The Topping D10 Balanced is £140 and I believe completely transparent.

SINAD silliness...

 

[D2013]

"If all you're looking for is a transparent DAC, rather than bragging rights, you can save a lot of money. And there's an argument that we should be far more interested in audio quality than bragging rights."

Imo, there is more to buying a DAC than how how audibly transparent it is.

for example.

D10 balanced
Inputs: usb
outputs: balanced trs, optical, coaxial
features: none

D50s
Inputs: usb, optical, coaxial, bluetooth
outputs: unbalanced rca
features: pre-amp mode

D70 Pro SABRE
Inputs: usb, optical, coaxial, bluetooth, AES
outputs: unbalanced rca, balanced xlr
features: pre-amp mode, 2 fixed output levels for each output type, can configure how the outputs are used, 12 trigger in & out, internal PSU

D90 III
Inputs: usb, optical, coaxial, bluetooth, AES, hdmi/iis
outputs: unbalanced rca, balanced xlr
features: pre-amp mode, 2 fixed output levels for each output type, can configure how the outputs are used, 12 trigger in & out, internal PSU, MQA


The main difference between the D70 & D90 is MQA & iis support. If i had to guess iis is so you can directly connect to the U90. If memory serves, this require a dedicated chip and probably adds to the cost significantly.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Imo, there is more to buying a DAC than how how audibly transparent it is.

for example.

D10 balanced
Inputs: usb
outputs: balanced trs, optical, coaxial
features: none

D50s
Inputs: usb, optical, coaxial, bluetooth
outputs: unbalanced rca
features: pre-amp mode

D70 Pro SABRE
Inputs: usb, optical, coaxial, bluetooth, AES
outputs: unbalanced rca, balanced xlr
features: pre-amp mode, 2 fixed output levels for each output type, can configure how the outputs are used, 12 trigger in & out, internal PSU

D90 III
Inputs: usb, optical, coaxial, bluetooth, AES, hdmi/iis
outputs: unbalanced rca, balanced xlr
features: pre-amp mode, 2 fixed output levels for each output type, can configure how the outputs are used, 12 trigger in & out, internal PSU, MQA


The main difference between the D70 & D90 is MQA & iis support. If i had to guess iis is so you can directly connect to the U90. If memory serves, this require a dedicated chip and probably adds to the cost significantly.

So, I agree there are other factors. But in the great scheme of things, they’re small beer compared to sound quality.

I chose as my cheap reference the Topping D10 balanced, as I knew if I went for the £80 SMSL someone would be along saying it was only RCAs.

But, as a further example, I have a Topping EX5 which cost me around £300 or so, and it has Bluetooth, balanced ins and outs, can be used as a pre amp, USB, optical and coax ins, and also includes a bloody great headphone amp.

We’re not talking about these features adding anything like £900.

But yes, I concede features are a factor.

 

[Bleib]

So, I agree there are other factors. But in the great scheme of things, they’re small beer compared to sound quality.

I chose as my cheap reference the Topping D10 balanced, as I knew if I went for the £80 SMSL someone would be along saying it was only RCAs.

But, as a further example, I have a Topping EX5 which cost me around £300 or so, and it has Bluetooth, balanced ins and outs, can be used as a pre amp, USB, optical and coax ins, and also includes a bloody great headphone amp.

We’re not talking about these features adding anything like £900.

But yes, I concede features are a factor.

I say the only thing that this makes it different is the BT remote as I have been complaining about remotes for quite a while, nowhere near as good responsiveness as my LG OLED TV..
Although obviously a better remote shouldn't add so much to the cost..

 

[Antagron]

Once audio transparency is achieved, the most important differentiators ARE the features: inputs/outputs, display, remote, Bluetooth, format support, EQ, loudness, balance, triggers, build quality, form factor, etc. I think once the bar is cleared on technical performance, we should be focusing on everything else.

For me, the RME is the top dog because it basically does it all, with a few exceptions: trigger (available in higher end models, but for me, a nice to have), Bluetooth (another nice to have, but it would be nice to have transmit/receive BT become standard. I solved this problem with an $80 1Mii B03Pro+ though so no real problem), and MQA (actually a good thing for me, since I don't use Tidal and even if I did, they're backing out of MQA day by day). What it does offer is everything else PLUS a headphone amp PLUS an awesome software remote control for making configuration a snap. A Bluetooth app would be nice, as well, but certainly in the nice to have category, as my computer is right there when I want to play with the DAC.

 

[Masher]

Great review as always. I like that Topping is still pushing constant improvement, but it will probably be a long time before I get upgradeitis from the D70 Pro Sabre + LA90D... I can't imagine a better setup for my desk. Only question is if I can rationalize purchasing a second LA90D when they inevitably disco them to get that crazy bridged power as a future option to play with.

Same. Can't wait to get my 2nd LA90D.

 

[D2013]

Once audio transparency is achieved, the most important differentiators ARE the features: inputs/outputs, display, remote, Bluetooth, format support, EQ, loudness, balance, triggers, build quality, form factor, etc. I think once the bar is cleared on technical performance, we should be focusing on everything else.

I'd agree with that, because if the DAC don't have the i/o you want/need it's useless to you!

 

[transformer-coupled]

I see your D70 Pro and I raise you the SMSL SU-9 Pro. Same DAC chip, also balanced with 5.2v RMS output, MQA, bluetooth, $500. Some input differences though.

SMSL SU-9 Pro MQA Desktop DAC

Cutting-edge desktop DAC The SMSL SU-9 Pro MQA Desktop DAC pushes the desktop DAC game forward with a set of cutting-edge components like a brand-new ESS SABRE DAC chip, a third gen jitter elimination chip, and a third gen USB controller. Plus, a number of quality-of-life improvements like an...

apos.audio

But then there's the SMSL DO400 which is the SU-9 Pro plus a powerful headphone amp for the same price.

SMSL DO400 | Fully Balanced Audio Decoder & Headphone Amplifier

Flagship DAC for Superior Sound Quality Experience audio in its purest form. The SMSL DO400 is equipped with the ES9039MSPRO, ESS company's flagship DAC chip, boasting 8 channels and offering unmatched dynamic range and low distortion. Revolutionary MQA Technology Unfold music's deepest layers...

www.linsoul.com

I preffer SMSL because they use linear PSU sorry sorry wow nice performace

 

[dmilller]

RME or miniDSP if Dirac or a crossover is desired. I've enjoyed the software updates from both companies.

I don't see spending $900 without getting more features. Has Topping ever improved a product after sale?

 

[Jimster480]

Honestly the price is just too high. It doesn't really have anything over a DX5 or DX7 or even E50...

 

[Chagall]

Honestly the price is just too high. It doesn't really have anything over a DX5 or DX7 or even E50...

E50? To be fair, it has more inputs, triggers and internal power supply. If the comparison was with E70 or D70 pro then the D90 becomes questionable.

Topping will know how the people react to the price by overall sales, but flagship product usually don't make bulk of the profit.

 

[Bob101]

Not sure why someone would buy this DAC while the D70 pro Sabre offers exact same performance, bigger display, Aurora UI and a lower price tag...

That's exactly why I got the D70. Not only the display, but the menu. Lets me switch between 2.0, 2.1 (and 0.1) fairly easily, without having to enter some kind of setup-mode.