TOPPING D90 III Sabre DAC Review

[oscar_dziki]

Already given: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/1090577.html

niece, any measurements on hp power?

 

[staticV3]

niece, any measurements on hp power?

 

[oscar_dziki]

View attachment 343367

Sorry mate, I haven't processed the graphs fast enough. Fuck me, I'm buying this. That's a device made for me.

 

[frabor]

$900 is a great deal for the performance and relative to what is in the market and historical pricing even if not taking inflation into account. Yeah, I agree it's not for those who are in a race to the bottom of the barrel, but that's not the market that it's targeted for.

I think folks are getting spoiled with the falling HiFi prices in the last decade or so. But regardless there are many many more economical options out there.

I do believe the future of the DAC is to reinvent the stereo preamp providing one or two analog inputs, and an auto detect for phono. I do not think that this is a way to the bottom, as we have plenty of sub 500 , and some sub 300 usd/eu capable of about equal performance but without the HDMI shapped input.

If the targeted market is the crowd that goes for oversized enclosures and feel good polished aluminum, they should charge much more. Geez, look at ps Audio and their flagship unit, 8000 usd/eu for a unit that measures worst than any decent 100 usd/eu unit.

Everyone is free to choose what they like and I agree, for some people looks are as important as performance, but if topping wants to lead, they should look at adding at most 30-50 usd/eu to the BOM and include an ADC. If arilic can do it for less than 100 usd/eu but poorly (ADC/DAC/HDMI/remote) I am sure that ,given the desire Topping could do it for about 1000 usd/eu and have a superb analog input.

 

[elvisizer]

5 volts? come on gimme 10, everything downstream of my DAC is from benchmark, GIVE ME VOLTS lololol

 

[dtaylo1066]

Topping is not run by dopes. High quality engineering and design. Establish a brand and performance threshold in the high-value, bang for the buck segment, then start moving to products with higher price points and margins for those many audio enthusiasts who are more than willing to pay for that.

I would be very curious as to how much their U.S. sales revenue compares to other nations, and what percent of product do they sell in China.

 

[fin]

Besides ASR members, there are other individuals and audio forums. I know you've seen millions of these "just-a-DAC" DACs performing well and might have lost interest years ago, but there are billions of people who still lack even the slightest concept of what a good DAC is. This is further complicated by snake oil manufacturers spreading misleading information, exacerbating the situation. Amir's recommendations are still very important and represent a solid foundation for promoting gear with excellent measurement numbers across the internet.

For those needing more than "just-a-DAC", I'd also recommend RME products but I'll mention the less popular RME UCX II in hifi forum, which has recently updated to support an additional 9-band PEQ. Combined with the original three it now supports DSP based 12-band PEQ for up to 16 channels simultaneously which is totally insane. I've been using it with crossfeed and delay for several days and am loving it. It's a few hundred more expensive in my area than the Topping but proved well worth it given its tons and tons of functions as a professional audio interface.

 

[Carlo2AC]

Whats the meaning behind the letters before each model name on Topping products?

Like A70, L70, D70, E70 and so on..?

 

[Rhamnetin]

Whats the meaning behind the letters before each model name on Topping products?

Like A70, L70, D70, E70 and so on..?

A = flagship headphone amps
L = headphone amps
D = flagship DACs
E = DACs
DX = DAC+headphone amp combos
P = power amps

But then sometimes the prices don't align like they should, a product in a non-flagship lineup gets an upgrade that puts it above the one in the flagship lineup, and Topping ends up competing with themselves.

 

[dogmamann]

Topping is selling this DAC based on it measuring (slightly) better than previous models and having a "better" chip set. Given that this Topping DAC and the previous Topping DACs will sound exactly the same, I think people are reacting to that marketing. Plus, Topping raised the price vs the previous generation and there is concern that this DAC is not competitive in terms of features with RME and others in this price range. All of that seems like reasonable criticism to me. I don't see anyone saying that D90 III should be $49, but it makes sense to compare it to the much less expansive Topping DAC models (that will sound identical) and ask if the price difference is worthwhile. If we accept that the Topping D10S at $109 will sound the same as the Topping D90 III at $899, how can not discuss value?

If one is looking only for sound 100 dollars is enough for the absolute audible transparency, period! The rest is just for comfort. The rich and the poor are going to hear the same. The rich gets more comforts.. If you already have a topping d10 or e30. Sonically there is nothing better you can get even if you are rich. That’s the conclusion

 

[Ajax]

I tend to agree with most of the comments here and just voted "fine". I already have several high performance DACs on different systems, Benchmark DAC2, SMSL SU8 & Topping 50s, all of which sound very good to my old ears so without additional features I don't see the point and would be chasing my tail purchasing the D90 III at $899. Although compared to PS audio, Chord, Weiss etc it is still very good value.

My guess is that if this DAC (D90 III) was re packaged as a complete pre amp, with streamer, analogue input & DSP, it would sell very well at say $1,200.

The alternatives, Minidsp flex at $770 (Balanced with Dirac Live) and RME at $1100, offer much better value IMO.

Anyway each to their own.

 

[dogmamann]

The number of people voting just fine for the dac with the highest SNR proves that it’s no longer enough to impress people. People need features, but if it’s a trade off on SNR, even within inaaudibile noise range, people would be disattisfied.

 

[JEntwistle]

A = flagship headphone amps
L = headphone amps
D = flagship DACs
E = DACs
DX = DAC+headphone amp combos
P = power amps

But then sometimes the prices don't align like they should, a product in a non-flagship lineup gets an upgrade that puts it above the one in the flagship lineup, and Topping ends up competing with themselves.

Thanks. I have been looking exactly for this!

I would add that Topping introduces new products so quickly that their retailers often have old models still listed along with the new versions. which makes the model lines confusing. I have found the Topping website to be the best place to see what the current models are - it makes much more sense.

All Products - TOPPING AUDIO

www.tpdz.net

 

[JEntwistle]

I'm struggling to see what the "upgrade" is for this vs. the D70 Pro. MQA on the D90 if you need it; but the D70 has the new graphical screen which the D90 does not. $200 difference.

D70 Pro: https://www.tpdz.net/products
D90III: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/1141825.html

 

[Rottmannash]

I basically agree with you and there is no need to further debate. I was making a marketing point, not one on metrics or performance. My endpoint, as I think is yours, is thus: In DACs, the basic audio digital to analog conversion function of a Civic priced DAC is now equal to that of a Corvette priced model.

Other than feature set, aesthetics, and warranty there is nothing to really differentiate.

I see it like this: Once a DAC has decoded the incoming stream it's flat out- a car can idle or go its top speed at the press of the accelerator.

 

[JEntwistle]

I'm struggling to see what the "upgrade" is for this vs. the D70 Pro. MQA on the D90 if you need it; but the D70 has the new graphical screen which the D90 does not. $200 difference.

D70 Pro: https://www.tpdz.net/products
D90III: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/1141825.html

Well, I'll correct my own post and say that I missed the IIS connection on the D90.

 

[D2013]

Well, I'll correct my own post and say that I missed the IIS connection on the D90.

As I mentioned previously, the biggest difference between most topping models at this point is i/o, fit and finish, and auxiliary features.

 

[Centuriaromano]

 

[dogmamann]

What a joke !! He can hear the difference it seems ?!

 

[Rhamnetin]

I'm struggling to see what the "upgrade" is for this vs. the D70 Pro. MQA on the D90 if you need it; but the D70 has the new graphical screen which the D90 does not. $200 difference.

D70 Pro: https://www.tpdz.net/products
D90III: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/1141825.html

I see your D70 Pro and I raise you the SMSL SU-9 Pro. Same DAC chip, also balanced with 5.2v RMS output, MQA, bluetooth, $500. Some input differences though.

SMSL SU-9 Pro MQA Desktop DAC

Cutting-edge desktop DAC The SMSL SU-9 Pro MQA Desktop DAC pushes the desktop DAC game forward with a set of cutting-edge components like a brand-new ESS SABRE DAC chip, a third gen jitter elimination chip, and a third gen USB controller. Plus, a number of quality-of-life improvements like an...

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But then there's the SMSL DO400 which is the SU-9 Pro plus a powerful headphone amp for the same price.

SMSL DO400 | Fully Balanced Audio Decoder & Headphone Amplifier

Flagship DAC for Superior Sound Quality Experience audio in its purest form. The SMSL DO400 is equipped with the ES9039MSPRO, ESS company's flagship DAC chip, boasting 8 channels and offering unmatched dynamic range and low distortion. Revolutionary MQA Technology Unfold music's deepest layers...

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