Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[Jimbob54]

can the machine measure the musicality ?

No- the machine can measure how accurately it converts a digital signal to an analogue one. There should be no concept of musicality in a DAC- there should only be an accurate conversion.

So we are left with a few options:

1. The guy writing that imagined the differences- the way to rule this out is him blind testing the D90 vs the other DAC with both outputting the same level signal
2. The guy didnt match the levels between the 2 DACs- see above
3. One of the DACs produces audible levels of distortion. This may or may not be something an individual listener wants - it may lead some to perceive the output from that device as "more musical". Given we know the D90 shouldnt do this , perhaps the other DAC does. Without measurements its not easy to rule this option in or out.

It could of course be a mix of all 3 of the above

 

[Frgirard]

No- the machine can measure how accurately it converts a digital signal to an analogue one. There should be no concept of musicality in a DAC- there should only be an accurate conversion.

So we are left with a few options:

1. The guy writing that imagined the differences- the way to rule this out is him blind testing the D90 vs the other DAC with both outputting the same level signal
2. The guy didnt match the levels between the 2 DACs- see above
3. One of the DACs produces audible levels of distortion. This may or may not be something an individual listener wants - it may lead some to perceive the output from that device as "more musical". Given we know the D90 shouldnt do this , perhaps the other DAC does. Without measurements its not easy to rule this option in or out.

It could of course be a mix of all 3 of the above

4 the guy listen his internal daemon and not the dac.

 

[mocenigo]

reading the review of Mojo Mystique EVO Pro, i almost puke reading this sentences
"I briefly hooked up the Topping D90 directly to the Sound Devices Recorder and wanted to throw it (the D90) in the garbage. The differences are not subtle. I hope to convey the differences in the recording.... stand by as I perfect this and the song selections..."
yet in this site, Topping D90 is one of the best DAC ever measured by amir... so that make me wondering... can the machine measure the musicality ?
go ahead and read the review by yourself.....
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/mojo-mystique-evo-pro-d-a-converter.25088/

But it is/has

1. R2R (which, we all have to admit, can be done very well).
2. Non Oversampling (welcome artifacts galore)
3. It has direct-coupled
   • ultrahigh-performance,
     • discrete,
       • class A op amps
4. inductive linear power supplies! (all switching power supplies are inductive by definition, but I digress)
5. and all this Because algorithms can't appreciate music!
6. and a price to match!

It must sound better than something with switching crap and integrated op-amps, right?

Now, it may sound better, it may measure better, it may be more pleasing, it may also be able to perform oral sex on lucky customers, but I want to see measurements or reports of properly controlled subjective testing.

 

[kopczas]

yet in this site, Topping D90 is one of the best DAC ever measured by amir... so that make me wondering... can the machine measure the musicality ?
go ahead and read the review by yourself.....

Answer is quite simple IMO.
As dac itself uses ancient R2R chip it`s probably (in purpose) design to awake 1st and 2nd harmonic distortion to give it preferable coloration.
PLUS
everything that people wrote above.

 

[phoenixsong]

Answer is quite simple IMO.
As dac itself uses ancient R2R chip it`s probably (in purpose) design to awake 1st and 2nd harmonic distortion to give it preferable coloration.
PLUS
everything that people wrote above.

Review and Measurements of Holo Audio May | L7Audiolab
Let's not overgeneralise shall we?

 

[kopczas]

Let's not overgeneralise shall we?

Holo Audio is not chipbased DAC, and AD1862 is circa 30 yrso design, from the time where "magic" lived in audio equipment so it`s hard to compare. No measurements from Mystique so it`s impossible to judge but this guy on youtube, Zeos or Zeus could not hear any difference between Holo May and Topping D90 v.1 (as they both measured perfectly) so if there is audible difference between Mystique and Topping, they should have introduced a lot of those pleasant distortions.
Here`s some diy project from 2009 based on AD1862:
http://www.fetaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/FFT-DAC-D1V3-AD1862-0dbFS-log.pdf

I`ve read a lot of DIY forums and people still trying to get the best from those old chips, for unknown reason only NOS option is appreciated.
As I understood, to get "magic" from ancient chips, there`s some kind of special knowledge needed (like beyond professional engineering) to make them sound better then anything else. Designs especially emphasize for all harmonic distortions, with tubes at the output stage it`s even easier to get.

I do not want to overgeneralise but there is no another thing to be changed if distortionless DAC is worst then Mystique.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

reading the review of Mojo Mystique EVO Pro, i almost puke reading this sentences
"I briefly hooked up the Topping D90 directly to the Sound Devices Recorder and wanted to throw it (the D90) in the garbage. The differences are not subtle. I hope to convey the differences in the recording.... stand by as I perfect this and the song selections..."

If he makes recordings available which supposedly makes the differences obvious, I'd be first in line to hear it.

 

[Veri]

I`ve read a lot of DIY forums and people still trying to get the best from those old chips, for unknown reason only NOS option is appreciated.
As I understood, to get "magic" from ancient chips, there`s some kind of special knowledge needed (like beyond professional engineering) to make them sound better then anything else. Designs especially emphasize for all harmonic distortions, with tubes at the output stage it`s even easier to get.

DIY people can be borderline nutty. Paraphrasing here, one needs to believe in "magic" to hear the magic, I guess

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The musicality is generated by the pianist not the dac!!!

I was wondering why the string quartet I'm listening to doesn't have any musicality - DUH, NO PIANO!

 

[dfuller]

reading the review of Mojo Mystique EVO Pro, i almost puke reading this sentences
"I briefly hooked up the Topping D90 directly to the Sound Devices Recorder and wanted to throw it (the D90) in the garbage. The differences are not subtle. I hope to convey the differences in the recording.... stand by as I perfect this and the song selections..."
yet in this site, Topping D90 is one of the best DAC ever measured by amir... so that make me wondering... can the machine measure the musicality ?
go ahead and read the review by yourself.....
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/mojo-mystique-evo-pro-d-a-converter.25088/

No, because "musicality" doesn't exist as a thing you can test. Frequency response, distortion, output level, output impedance yes.

Also, subjective reviews like this are such nonsense.

 

[dgozalie]

Hello
here a nice article from the founder and creator of Mojo Mystique Evo Pro.... why don't you all read it....
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vin...nd-review-thread.777597/page-68#post-13923952

 

[Veri]

Hello
here a nice article from the founder and creator of Mojo Mystique Evo Pro.... why don't you all read it....
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vin...nd-review-thread.777597/page-68#post-13923952

The very first reply already calls him out for bullshit... and that was 2017.

 

[dfuller]

Hello
here a nice article from the founder and creator of Mojo Mystique Evo Pro.... why don't you all read it....
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vin...nd-review-thread.777597/page-68#post-13923952

Wow, that was quite a bit of technobabble mixed in with true engineering practice. Ultimately, it told me nothing.

 

[Snafu]

Mojo:

The parameters that improve are: time, tune, tone, timbre, attack, bloom, decay, extension, depth, width, and harmonic overtones.
You can't measure most of these things and the act of measuring them would often corrupt the actual performance.

mmm... oukeydoukey

 

[Veri]

Mojo:



mmm... oukeydoukey

"the act of measuring would corrupt" wait WHAT

 

[Jimbob54]

"the act of measuring would corrupt" wait WHAT

Like drawing back the curtain on Oz

 

[maverickronin]

Remember that Rob Watts can hear individual electrons and at that level the uncertainty principle comes into play. /s

 

[Tokyo_John]

"the act of measuring would corrupt" wait WHAT

Apparently "time, tune, tone, timbre, attack, bloom, decay, extension, depth, width, and harmonic overtones" are quantum phenomena and subject to the uncertainty principle.

 

[Veri]

Apparently "time, tune, tone, timbre, attack, bloom, decay, extension, depth, width, and harmonic overtones" are quantum phenomena and subject to the uncertainty principle.

Schrodinger's PRaT.

 

[gryffe]

Have hit a bit of a problem playing back DSD files when using my D90 with HQPlayer, but only when using MacBookAir as Core Audio.

The D90 will play PCM files no problem, but when selecting DSD files the songs will play but there is no sound. If I then switch away from MBA as Core Audio in HQPlayer and use my SMS 200 Network player as an alternative then I can play DSD and PCM files no problem through the D90. If I switch DAC’s from Topping D90 to my Chord Hugo 2 DAC then I can play DSD files using my MBA as Core Audio, so it’s a bit weird that the MBA as Core Audio has no sound from DSD files when using Topping D90 DAC. Any of you folks got any ideas?