Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[cryptout]

These guys write the same words when a DAC measures great and doesn't cost a lot. It is sterile, not coherent, etc., etc. I don't know how it is that subjectivists don't catch up to the sameness in all these reviews.

I like my DAC's sterile.

 

[FrantzM]

Now a site known for its subjective reviews is using ASR as reference. .https://audiobacon.net/2019/12/24/topping-d50s-dac-review/

This is required reading for anyone interested in High Fidelity reproduction. It is a given that most subjective reviews are drivel but this one is a good illustration of why these reviews must NEVER be used to make a decision.
from the "review":
The Pros ( At least he/she tried to be honest the darn thing will sound good, we all already knew that ....)
The Cons and I quote ((Mod, if this is not allowed please erase the post or notify me so that I can..)... Anyway this is the URL to this review

At this price point, it doesn’t matter if it measures well. Tradeoffs are a given.

followed by a list of cons about the unit being sterile, not cohesive and other things that I believe the neophyte audiophile needs to read to push these things out of his/her mind. Some sort of vaccination against subjective audio reviews influence. And take some basic blind test to solidify one

The price reference is endemic to High End Audio. The best units need to cost a certain amount. This threshold varies with the forum intended market. Let's arbitrarily put it at U$10,000... Since this Topping is "only" $500 or so, it can't be that good...
Had it cost $20,000 and please don't laugh: Some manufacturers would take the same basic circuitry or even the Topping D90 as OEM and put it in a large CNC-cut shiny and heavy box, stuff in a linear Power Supply large enough to power a 200 wpc amplifier, with large electrolytic capacitors or better these days, multiple smaller electrolytic caps, use heavy gauge mu-metal shielding all around the LPS circuit. The XLR and RCA connectors would be some nom-du-jour audiophile fare (Furutech, WBT, etc) ... Some pointy feet, and ... BLAM!! $20,000!!! Same writer would found different adjectives to describe the same device. A few influencer or/and audio reviewers, will start using the "I-had-to-buy-the-review-unit" catch-phrase and you have a new audiophile star to be surpassed by the new 4-box Reference : A DAC , a Master Clock in a same size box, ,a Streamer following the same logic,finally another heavier box for the Linear Power Supply to provide "clean, noise-free" power to all those boxes ... Now you have a >$100,000 unit that plays with the big boys...

This is what ASR is fighting and with success.

Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate today. People!

 

[VintageFlanker]

This is required reading for anyone interested in High Fidelity reproduction. It is a given that most subjective reviews are drivel but this one is a good illustration of why these reviews must NEVER be used to make a decision.
from the "review":
The Pros ( At least he/she tried to be honest the darn thing will sound good, we all already knew that ....)
The Cons and I quote ((Mod, if this is not allowed please erase the post or notify me so that I can..)... Anyway this is the URL to this review
followed by a list of cons about the unit being sterile, not cohesive and other things that I believe the neophyte audiophile needs to read to push these things out of his/her mind. Some sort of vaccination against subjective audio reviews influence. And take some basic blind test to solidify one

The price reference is endemic to High End Audio. The best units need to cost a certain amount. This threshold varies with the forum intended market. Let's arbitrarily put it at U$10,000... Since this Topping is "only" $500 or so, it can't be that good...
Had it cost $20,000 and please don't laugh: Some manufacturers would take the same basic circuitry or even the Topping D90 as OEM and put it in a large CNC-cut shiny and heavy box, stuff in a linear Power Supply large enough to power a 200 wpc amplifier, with large electrolytic capacitors or better these days, multiple smaller electrolytic caps, use heavy gauge mu-metal shielding all around the LPS circuit. The XLR and RCA connectors would be some nom-du-jour audiophile fare (Furutech, WBT, etc) ... Some pointy feet, and ... BLAM!! $20,000!!! Same writer would found different adjectives to describe the same device. A few influencer or/and audio reviewers, will start using the "I-had-to-buy-the-review-unit" catch-phrase and you have a new audiophile star to be surpassed by the new 4-box Reference : A DAC , a Master Clock in a same size box, ,a Streamer following the same logic,finally another heavier box for the Linear Power Supply to provide "clean, noise-free" power to all those boxes ... Now you have a >$100,000 unit that plays with the big boys...

This is what ASR is fighting and with success.

Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate today. People!

Was going to write almost the same post !

So, if we compare measurements, can we except any (real world) difference in sound between D90 and D50s ?

Not much ?

Not much (if none) in theory. Still to be proved in DBT.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

These guys write the same words when a DAC measures great and doesn't cost a lot. It is sterile, not coherent, etc., etc. I don't know how it is that subjectivists don't catch up to the sameness in all these reviews.

It's a perverse logic if you think about it. I always argue with these palookas that a DAC should do what it's name alludes to; convert digital files to analog signal as accurately as possible. If coloration, tone control, EQing etc is desired, then either software or an amp is the place to do that.

But when I read things like "Tonally muted. There aren’t a lot of tonal colors in its palette. Sometimes male and female vocals have the same shades" I can really tell that the bullshit Thesaurus has taken over. But then again, this is the fundamental problem of information in the current era; any palooka with a computer and internet connection can publish nonsense like this. Unfortunately, seeing the content in words and with a fancy website template, and some allusion to being an "engineer and designer" will give one plenty licence to spread subjective opinions and confusion.

 

[gypsygib]

Since Topping itself offers to pay the re-buy, I see no reason to do not re-measure randon units... No reason, apart from your busy schedule!

Anyway, kudos to Topping for this proposal. And for this SOTA performance. Welcome in the top chart, AK4499!

I'd love to see the measurements of the latest DX3 Pro LDAC and the version before that.

 

[Milt]

Merry Christmas everyone, taking a much needed break from the festivities.
So what do the Big Boys in the DAC world, dCS & EMM do that the Top 10 in the ASR list don't do?
Please don't be obvious & say "Cost a sh!tload more".

 

[amirm]

So what do the Big Boys in the DAC world, dCS & EMM do that the Top 10 in the ASR list don't do?

Unknown until we measure them.

 

[abvolt]

Great review as always this is a dac I'll be considering definitely in my price range, Thanks

 

[MZKM]

Merry Christmas everyone, taking a much needed break from the festivities.
So what do the Big Boys in the DAC world, dCS & EMM do that the Top 10 in the ASR list don't do?
Please don't be obvious & say "Cost a sh!tload more".

Stereophile has measured dCS.

The DAC3 has a much lower noise floor, but the Vivaldi has less distortion (THD & IMD).

 

[Haskil]

Slowly but firmly entering ADI-2 DAC price levels, and digging their own grave! Considering D90 has no headphone amp its price is above the RME.

Bonjour ! Oui, mais en plus de son ampli casque, le ADI-2 DAC de RME a des utilitaires - égaliseur paramétrique, loudness réglable puis automatique... -, que ne possède pas le magnifique Topping D 90... si Topping, incluait dans un de ses DAC un DSP qui pourrait recevoir les mesures faites par REW ou autres, un loudness - celui du RME est très très utile -, et un ADC pour connecter une entrée analogique....

 

[Haskil]

And Bravo ! for this test Amirm ! Bravo !

 

[Dominique-T]

Bonjour ! Oui, mais en plus de son ampli casque, le ADI-2 DAC de RME a des utilitaires - égaliseur paramétrique, loudness réglable puis automatique... -, que ne possède pas le magnifique Topping D 90... si Topping, incluait dans un de ses DAC un DSP qui pourrait recevoir les mesures faites par REW ou autres, un loudness - celui du RME est très très utile -, et un ADC pour connecter une entrée analogique....

Bonjour Haskil,
RME is targetting a "pro" market, Topping is looking for the "Audiophile" market.
The functions you are describing are fully justifying the price difference and why the professionnals will not switch to Topping because it is using a more recent chipset.
They are happy with tneir ADI Pro and they will quietly wait for the next generation of RME product.
The pro market is not as "compulsive" as the audiophile market.
Dominique

 

[Haskil]

Bonjour Haskil,
RME is targetting a "pro" market, Topping is looking for the "Audiophile" market.
The functions you are describing are fully justifying the price difference and why the professionnals will not switch to Topping because it is using of more recent chipset.
They are happy with tneir ADI Pro and they will quietly wait for the next generation of RME product.
The pro market is not as "compulsive" as the audiophile market.
Dominique

Bonjour Dominique !

Je connais ces deux marques et leur positionnement officiel.

RME est une marque de produits professionnels... qui a sorti son DAC ADI Pro.... à destination du marché haute fidélité audiophile mature et intelligent : le petit équaliseur paramétriques 5 bandes et le loudness réglable n'ont rien d'une utilisation professionnelle...
L'ADI 2 est typiquement un DAC Audiophile avec le sérieux Pro : sur le plan du marketing, c'est très intelligent.

Alain

 

[SmackDaddies]

I am guessing that it is milled from solid chunk of aluminum, much like very high-end audio products. While this doesn't do anything for sound, it does make the unit sit there solidly and not be tugged by cables.

Definitely part of the reason to buy more expensive products. The touch and feel of quality products increases enjoyment

 

[fustyler]

Apologies if this is off topic, question from a noob:

I bought a D50 this year. In my current setup I have a macbook hooked up to a D50 connecting to a Marantz amp which connects to a pair of KEF LS50 speakers.

I would like to do be able to stream from mobile devices (Android phone) to the speaker.

Should I upgrade the D50 to D50s, or D90, or somehow turn the macbook into a bluetooth receiver?

Thanks in advance.

 

[maxxevv]

Apologies if this is off topic, question from a noob:

I bought a D50 this year. In my current setup I have a macbook hooked up to a D50 connecting to a Marantz amp which connects to a pair of KEF LS50 speakers.

I would like to do be able to stream from mobile devices (Android phone) to the speaker.

Should I upgrade the D50 to D50s, or D90, or somehow turn the macbook into a bluetooth receiver?

Thanks in advance.

Not sure if this will work with your Android device but such things do exist and you can convert your D50 to BT receivable. Maybe you can do some research on if it has compatibility issues.

https://www.amazon.com/Fosi-Audio-B...7376974&sprefix=bluetooth+coax,aps,372&sr=8-8

 

[fustyler]

Not sure if this will work with your Android device but such things do exist and you can convert your D50 to BT receivable. Maybe you can do some research on if it has compatibility issues.

https://www.amazon.com/Fosi-Audio-Bluetooth-Interface-Converter/dp/B07FLH6R1B/ref=sr_1_8?crid=2PXY4YUU57GDB&keywords=bluetooth+coaxial+output&qid=1577376974&sprefix=bluetooth+coax,aps,372&sr=8-8

Thanks for the advice. An additional investment of $60USD for a BT device.
Makes me wonder if I should sell the D50 and upgrade to D50s or D90.

 

[maninthehighcastle]

what headphone amplifier is a good pairing for the D90? I want to drive my LCD2F with these and more to come (maybe hd800s).

 

[VintageFlanker]

what headphone amplifier is a good pairing for the D90? I want to drive my LCD2F with these and more to come (maybe hd800s).

Any good headphone amp...
To be cohesive with this SOTA performance: Massdrop THX 789, SMSL SP200, Monoprice 887, Geshelli Archel 2, Tom Christiansen Audio HPA-1, Schiit Magni Heresy (strangely, the best value performance/power/price here).

 

[maninthehighcastle]

I was thinking about the Monoprice 887. Is this available in europe?