Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[rebbiputzmaker]

Excellent, although I have to say that 4×DSD is total number-chasing nonsense!

Maybe it’s nonsense to tell somebody nonsense is nonsense.

 

[Pluto]

That's more complicated to decode than MQA!

 

[ShiZo]

Tidal is awesome. They have really underground music I've never been able to find in high quality. That's my experience so far.

 

[thebirdman9999]

i plan on upgrading to the d90 from the dacmagic100 soon . cant wait to try it

 

[RichB]

Maybe it’s nonsense to tell somebody nonsense is nonsense.

Most AVR,AVP's that decode DSD do not allow processing. This also include the Oppo UDP-20x.
As a result, there is no opportunity to muck with the signal.
Does that matter, maybe not, however it is a difference and when comparing all differences should at least be acknowledged.

I have DSD rips and also PCM conversions and they do not sound the same, I suspect it is the digital path that differs.
There may also be imprecise level matching at play.

- Rich

 

[Azamatka]

D90 MQA mod.

Would you kindly elaborate what has been done please? I see you replaced the original caps around the dac chip with 6.3v 10000uf Nichicons and I wish I could see other caps as nicely. Cheers!

 

[ReaderZ]

I think you are getting your “64s” & “32s” a bit out of context and confusing yourself as a result. When you are dealing with PCM, the DAC display will show a maximum of 768kHz PCM and the number of bits should be handled transparently by the audio application software. Anything above that will be a DSD sampling rate and is technically 1bit (as opposed to the 16, 24 or 32bit structure of PCM) but at a rather higher sampling rate, starting at 2.82MHz.

“64” & “32” relate, in all likelihood, to the computer operating system and it is what it is i.e. nothing directly to do with audio.

Don't think I am confused at all, PCM are usually 16, 24 or 32 bit, and I am fully aware DSD are 1 bit with super high rate. So it's not me who is getting this out of context, the link clear states:

"converts from 1-bit DSD to 64-bit PCM at 1/8th of the DSD sample rate. The total amount of data from this conversion grows by 8x, so the process is effectively lossless / perfect. Once you have PCM, it will be 64bit @ 352.8 kHz for DSD, and 64bit @ 705.6 kHz for 2×DSD. "


So no, that does not answer my question at all, and be honest I think it's you who are taking it out of context and randomly added operating system bits into this.

My best guess now is it is indeed 64 bit 352.8 khz PCM at first, then they perform another conversion at later stage so DAC can do it's job. Now benefit of two step conversion instead of one is beyond me.

What still puzzle me still is in the link the second down sample step implied as optional, but I can't find any DAC can do 64 bit 352.8 khz PCM on market.

 

[Pluto]

The only context in which 64bit appears is related to JRiver's internal calculations / volume control. Before this signal is presented to the outside world it is converted to 32 or 24bit. JRiver has a very good control for setting the external bit depth, be it 32 bit float, integer, 24 or even 16bit.

If a conversion process is truly lossless then it hardly matters whether you perform that process once or a hundred times. When moving from the DSD space to PCM there will always be those who argue that “it sounds different” but once converted to PCM any further conversion is harmless. To the best of my knowledge, all JRiver's internals operate at 64 bit and the very final stage, before output, converts to 32, 24 or 16bit for presentation to the outside world.

JRiver have an exceptional forum in which the developers participate, combined with a very open policy so I am sure that any questions you wish to ask about their methodologies will be accurately answered by them.

 

[goone]

Hello,
When I am in DAC mode playing DSD cannot control volume both on Foobar2000 and Jriver, am I missing something? anyone know why?
Thanks in advance

 

[Jimbob54]

Hello,
When I am in DAC mode playing DSD cannot control volume both on Foobar2000 and Jriver, am I missing something? anyone know why?
Thanks in advance

I believe that is as exactly it should be. You should only be able to vary the signal after D to A conversion.

 

[dixter]

DAC mode is the same as LO mode on other devices. Fixed output at LO level and no volume control. The Amp that the DAC is connected to should be the control for volume.

 

[Yviena]

Volume control should be possible with DAC mode and DSD using digital attenuation in the software player/windows, I know it works for me with HQplayer atleast.

 

[Pluto]

It is correct that Foobar will not perform volume control when operating in DSD mode.

Only if the signal is converted to PCM will the volume control actually function. This is the core reason that DSD is unpopular within studios – even “simple” manipulations like control of volume are not really that simple within the DSD space.

 

[Yviena]

It is correct that Foobar will not perform volume control when operating in DSD mode.

Only if the signal is converted to PCM will the volume control actually function. This is the core reason that DSD is unpopular within studios – even “simple” manipulations like control of volume are not really that simple within the DSD space.

Unsure then how HQplayer does it then but it has volume control for DSD without converting to PCM, maybe miska has somehow managed to create one?

 

[mocenigo]

Unsure then how HQplayer does it then but it has volume control for DSD without converting to PCM, maybe miska has somehow managed to create one?

It has its internal SDM (sigma delta modulator) which is in SW. In other words it will consider a DSD stream like a 2.8Mhz (or higher) PCM stream, that is then probably lowpass filtered, multiplied by the volume factor, and then re-converted to DSD. This is my guess, but there is no other way to change the volume of a DSD stream. (Except for the last conversion back to DSD, this is what the Soekris DAC does internally.)

 

[dixter]

while we are on DSD I have read on the roon site that its best to have software convert all files to DSD prior to sending it to the D90.... anyone using it this way.... seems it helps the DAC Chip if you convert the files first and let the DAC Chip handle the DSD without it needing to convert?? At least thats what I think I read...

 

[goone]

Yes in HQplayer I can control the volume control

 

[ReaderZ]

while we are on DSD I have read on the roon site that its best to have software convert all files to DSD prior to sending it to the D90.... anyone using it this way.... seems it helps the DAC Chip if you convert the files first and let the DAC Chip handle the DSD without it needing to convert?? At least thats what I think I read...

There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You can’t make it better by converting pcm to dsd or vice versa. D90 can handle both natively.

 

[dixter]

some are saying you can let your software player convert all files to DSD and it helps the DAC Chip with the processing.... the specs of the DAC chip do show some degradation at the highest of the DSD files...

 

[auronthas]

I originally had the D90 set in pure DAC mode, where it outputs full digital volume. I found that, in that configuration, everything was just too loud when using sensitive headphones/IEMs even when the headphone amp was set to the lowest gain level. I would have to set the volume knob on the headphone amp way down to about 7 o'clock position, and that would result in channel imbalance. .

Wonder why your easy-driven and sensitive headphone/IEMs have to go through headphone amp? Why not direct connect to your digital to analogue sources?