Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[ra990]

Even though nobody here believes in breakin and that the sound cannot change, give it some time with some music playing and see if there is any difference. Miracles can happen.

I wholeheartedly believe in brain burn-in, as in your brain acclimates to the sound over time, and you end up thinking the equipment sounds better after so many hours. Much more likely that your brain has now adapted to the sound signature and it sounds nicer to you as a result.

 

[ra990]

Got the D90 MQA today. Seems that I have an issue with the driver. If I install it, I get working ASIO, but always get errors with WASAPI (exclusive). If I don't install the driver, I get working WASAPI, but no ASIO. I would like to have the option to pick either, not be stuck with one based on if I have the driver installed or not. I'm on Windows 10/x64.

Anyone else able to get WASAPI working with the Topping D90 Driver installed? I wonder if it's just an issue with the D90 MQA? I did upgrade the firmware to the newest after getting it.

 

[Sathtom]

Yes, am building a Pi setup. I just tested the DAC side by side with my (also new) Cambridge audio for a few hours, and anecdotally the Topping has a fair more detail, more space, but I'm finding it quite thin and well a bit un-involving. Some tracks I know like the back of my hand are coming out quite different. Seeing a marked effect on guitar for example and some vocals. Transients seem quite clipped or muted which makes it feel not particularly dynamic, Soundstage is also quite thin. Not my cup of tea really and first piece of audio gear I've bought without listening to it. Was for a second system anyway so not a problem, and it still sounds good, but tonally something isn't clicking with it for me at the moment. What do I know anyway, I think a Chord Dave sounds err poor lol

You compared D90 with which model of Cambridge Audio..? I ordered "ELAC Navis ARB-51" active speaker and looking for Streamer/DAC/Preamp combo and shortlisted "Cambridge Audio CXN V2" & "Topping D90". If I decide to buy D90 I have to look for streamer options as well.

This is my First HiFi setup and I am in a dilemma in choosing between these two.

 

[Laserjock]

I just received my Topping D90, nice build quality, can't comment on audio performance just yet. I'm running it via DAC mode into valve pre and power amps. Does this unit work with OTG to iPhone ? I ask because when I plug it in via my Apple camera adaptor it tells me it can't power the accessory? I have a Macbook I can use but a phone is pretty convenient from time to time. Anyone tried this yet?

Buy the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter.
It has power input and USB output.
I tried it with the SMSL 500 when the regular USB adapter said there wasn’t enough power to work with the phone.

 

[peanutslab]

I wholeheartedly believe in brain burn-in, as in your brain acclimates to the sound over time, and you end up thinking the equipment sounds better after so many hours. Much more likely that your brain has now adapted to the sound signature and it sounds nicer to you as a result.

In this case, both of these units are brand new so my brain hasn't adjusted to either of them. Anybody could hear the difference in voicing between the two dacs, it's not subtle and quite interesting!

 

[peanutslab]

You compared D90 with which model of Cambridge Audio..? I ordered "ELAC Navis ARB-51" active speaker and looking for Streamer/DAC/Preamp combo and shortlisted "Cambridge Audio CXN V2" & "Topping D90". If I decide to buy D90 I have to look for streamer options as well.

This is my First HiFi setup and I am in a dilemma in choosing between these two.

I doubt you can do wrong with either of them, the presentation is what I was talking about, the Cambridge is just the DacMagic model nothing special, and of course it's equipment dependent, not just the DAC here. On my current setup I think the Cambridge sounds more natural. There's no way to recommend any piece of equipment unless you actually listen to it and again one piece might sound completely different in somebody else's system.

 

[peanutslab]

Buy the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter.
It has power input and USB output.
I tried it with the SMSL 500 when the regular USB adapter said there wasn’t enough power to work with the phone.

Thanks, I have that adaptor, but haven't plugged a USB C into it yet, will give that a go.

 

[ra990]

Got the D90 MQA today. Seems that I have an issue with the driver. If I install it, I get working ASIO, but always get errors with WASAPI (exclusive). If I don't install the driver, I get working WASAPI, but no ASIO. I would like to have the option to pick either, not be stuck with one based on if I have the driver installed or not. I'm on Windows 10/x64.

Anyone else able to get WASAPI working with the Topping D90 Driver installed? I wonder if it's just an issue with the D90 MQA? I did upgrade the firmware to the newest after getting it.

If anyone is interested, I've been in touch with Topping support. Seems like this is due to the lack of 32 bit support with the D90 MQA specifically. The MQA libraries don't support 32 bits yet, so it's been disabled on this DAC apparently. There might be a future firmware update that adds this, but it's dependant on the MQA libraries being updated.

The Topping driver doesn't work well with WASAPI, so if you want MQA over WASAPI, don't install the Topping driver and just use the class 2 driver that Windows automatically installs. If you need ASIO as well, you're out of luck because you can only have one or the other working based on having the Topping driver installed or not. If I had known this, I would have gone with the D90 plain. Might consider an exchange. I have music apps in which I prefer using WASAPI, and then I have audio production/DAW apps in which I prefer to use ASIO. I cannot use both with this DAC, which really sucks in my case.

 

[peanutslab]

Could you run a VM, and run up a different driver on the VM to the core machine? Not sure if that would work, thinking aloud.

 

[ra990]

Could you run a VM, and run up a different driver on the VM to the core machine? Not sure if that would work, thinking aloud.

Not sure if it would work either, but appreciate you trying to think about it. Doesn't seem like running a VM would be worth the trouble though. Those ASIO apps already have a hard time running without clicks and pops on my beefy computer.

I'm hoping Topping will release a proper driver for the D90 MQA, which has functional ASIO and WASAPI (with MQA).

 

[ReaderZ]

If anyone is interested, I've been in touch with Topping support. Seems like this is due to the lack of 32 bit support with the D90 MQA specifically. The MQA libraries don't support 32 bits yet, so it's been disabled on this DAC apparently. There might be a future firmware update that adds this, but it's dependant on the MQA libraries being updated.

The Topping driver doesn't work well with WASAPI, so if you want MQA over WASAPI, don't install the Topping driver and just use the class 2 driver that Windows automatically installs. If you need ASIO as well, you're out of luck because you can only have one or the other working based on having the Topping driver installed or not. If I had known this, I would have gone with the D90 plain. Might consider an exchange. I have music apps in which I prefer using WASAPI, and then I have audio production/DAW apps in which I prefer to use ASIO. I cannot use both with this DAC, which really sucks in my case.

Maybe not the driver, I have the same driver but different device(DX7 Pro, and yes they use the same driver...) both WASAPI exclusive(tidal) and ASIO(fb2k) works fine.

 

[ra990]

Maybe not the driver, I have the same driver but different device(DX7 Pro, and yes they use the same driver...) both WASAPI exclusive(tidal) and ASIO(fb2k) works fine.

Right, that's what I'm saying - they need an updated driver that fixes this issue with the D90 MQA. I'm sure the driver works fine with their other devices, including D90-non MQA.

 

[Angsty]

I’ve spent a lot of time reading reviews, forums, and opinions about the D90, here and elsewhere. I’ve seen subjective differences in how people assess the D90; most are generally positive. But, there is one quote from Amir that I can’t get out of my mind:

Either way, the D90 is instrument grade digital to analog convert and can be used to test analog audio gear.

What I believe is happening with many of the subjective reviews of the D90 is that it is “testing” all the gear downstream in the audio chain. It’s like an Audio Precision test unit stuck in between source and sound. It’s not adding anything to the chain that is not walloped by alterations elsewhere. It’s a measurably more precise device than many of the DACs it replaces and likely reveals more of the colorations of the chain itself.

Frankly, I’m looking forward to that type of performance in my audio chain to reveal which of my other components is holding back on performance.

 

[gerald]

I'd appreciate some advice with regard to the following decision: I need a DAC and headphone amp, am in no hurry, and need to decide between
1. Topping D90 DAC + A90 headphone amp
2. Topping DX9 all-in-one DAC and headphone amp, which is surely coming at some point, akin to the DX7
Question: Can it be assumed that the individual components perform measurably better than the all-in-one DX9?
(I'll also ask in the A90 forum.)

 

[Angsty]

I'd appreciate some advice with regard to the following decision: I need a DAC and headphone amp, am in no hurry, and need to decide between
1. Topping D90 DAC + A90 headphone amp
2. Topping DX9 all-in-one DAC and headphone amp, which is surely coming at some point, akin to the DX7
Question: Can it be assumed that the individual components perform measurably better than the all-in-one DX9?
(I'll also ask in the A90 forum.)

In a word, no. Without an actual product to test, it would just be a hypothesis not grounded in facts. Topping has a history of great performing all in one units and separates.

 

[gerald]

In a word, no. [...] Topping has a history of great performing all in one units and separates.

thank you @Angsty , that's very helpful. I'll then wait and see what the actual measurements on the future DX9 say, because i'd prefer one unit to two - if they are comparable in performance.

 

[Pluto]

I've been in touch with Topping support. Seems like this is due to the lack of 32 bit support with the D90 MQA specifically. The MQA libraries don't support 32 bits yet, so it's been disabled on this DAC apparently

I find this verging on the incredible. If you have an issue supporting the 32bit specification, you convert any incoming data to something you can support – on a commercial product you don't simply allow things to fall over when presented with a format that has been in common use since the days of Windows 7!

Topping do not write the drivers nor create that part of the hardware that needs the driver. The hardware is an XMOS microcontroller and their software partner is Thesycon, both companies being top dogs in their respective fields. Sure, manufacturers (i.e. Topping) tinker around the edges with the driver but this is usually restricted to basic system integration stuff.

If Topping's presentation of the problem is accurate, logic dictates that any current MQA decoder would have similar issues i.e. the driver would prevent correct operation under WASAPI and I'm sure the audiophile world would be shrieking with horror by now, were this the case. MQA, love it or hate it, is well-established and this sounds like the kind of foul-up that besets early implementations.

Have you tried an audio player application that can be specifically set to 24 or 32 bit operation? If you have never tried JRiver, I would suggest you do because they have a support forum where some real expertise is to be found in what is, generally, a very open and transparent environment where an issue like this is likely to interest the developers. If you go over there, don't let the discussion develop into "does Media Center support MQA?" because that will meet with short shrift. But "Media Center will not work in WASAPI" is likely to interest them for the simple reason that it's possible that some aspect of the core WASAPI spec. is getting violated.

Good luck!

 

[Bamyasi]

If Topping's presentation of the problem is accurate, logic dictates that any current MQA decoder would have similar issues i.e. the driver would prevent correct operation under WASAPI and I'm sure the audiophile world would be shrieking with horror by now, were this the case. MQA, love it or hate it, is well-established and this sounds like the kind of foul-up that besets early implementations.

Indeed, Matrix Audio X-SABRE Pro DAC (MQA version) has the same issue and MA gave the same explanation as Topping did. So I am inclined to believe it.

 

[ra990]

Indeed, Matrix Audio X-SABRE Pro DAC (MQA version) has the same issue and MA gave the same explanation as Topping did. So I am inclined to believe it.

Can you point me to that explanation? Is it on a forum post somewhere?

I gave Topping a suggestion of having a master level setting to enable/disable MQA and the device could be put into a non-MQA mode where the 32 bit support would be enabled and everything would work just like on the plain D90. I doubt that will ever be implemented, but that's one way around the issue if it truly is MQA that is the cause of this issue.

 

[Bamyasi]

Can you point me to that explanation? Is it on a forum post somewhere?

I gave Topping a suggestion of having a master level setting to enable/disable MQA and the device could be put into a non-MQA mode where the 32 bit support would be enabled and everything would work just like on the plain D90. I doubt that will ever be implemented, but that's one way around the issue if it truly is MQA that is the cause of this issue.

From https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/319.html:

X-SABRE PRO(MQA) can support the Master Quality Authenticated coding technology developed by UK MQA Limited which can decode the MQA audio stream up to 24 Bit 384kHz. When X-SABRE Pro's display is showing "MQA", it means it is decoding the MQA audio authorized by the artist or publisher (MQA Studio). Meanwhile, X-SABRE Pro also can support DSD1024 and PCM audio stream up to 32Bit/768kHz sampling rate.

While on the above page, click on Specifications tab:

Technical / Digital Input

USB

• PCM 16-24Bit /44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz, 384kHz, 705.6kHz, 768kHz
• MQA 16-24Bit /44.1kHz、48kHz、88.2kHz、96kHz、176.4kHz、192kHz、352.8kHz、384kHz MQA Studio or MQA stream
• DSD DSD64/128/256 (DoP/dCS) DSD64/128/256/512 (ASIO Native)
• NOTE: Due to the technical specifications of MQA technology, the input bit depth of X-SABRE Pro (MQA) is limited in 24Bit currently