Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[Cut-Throat]

This is typical gound loop problem. Not a particular issue with any one component. It is a system issue to do with how everything is grounded and connected together. Replacing RCA interconnect with balanced should fix it. Most likely your power line device was putting noise onto the mains wiring (that is how it works after all) which then coupled into the ground loop.

I suspect something similar for @Markmosk although the source of the noise is most likely something else.

Sure, but what if 'Balanced' connections aren't available? --- I've been through this hundreds of times over the last 20 years. Ground Loops are often present and people just don't hear them. So, they think they're fine.... They're not! --- For the Blackest Backgrounds I lift ALL of my Grounds and Protect ALL of the Devices with a GFCI, which is far safer than a circuit with Ground Plugs and No GFCI. This is not my opinion, but a Statement from the N.E.C. regarding 2 Prong Installations that want Ground Fault Circuit Protection. Especially important if you have High Efficient Speakers.. Like Horns at 115db.

 

[antcollinet]

Sure, but what if 'Balanced' connections aren't available?

Galvanically isolating one of the connections forming the loop will normally suffice.

EG - use optical connector into the dac, or galvanically isolate the USB connector - without messing about with safety earths.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Galvanically isolating one of the connections forming the loop will normally suffice.

EG - use optical connector into the dac, or galvanically isolate the USB connector - without messing about with safety earths.

Yup, that may quiet the DAC.... Then you can deal with the Horn Amplifers, Pre-Amp, Streamers, CD Players, TV Set, Sub Woofers, Bass Amps, Active Crossovers.

 

[antcollinet]

Yup, that may quiet the DAC.... Then you can deal with the Horn Amplifers, Pre-Amp, Streamers, CD Players, TV Set, Sub Woofers, Bass Amps, Active Crossovers.

None of which will be a problem if you have broken the loop with the isolation.

Of course - if you've got connections going in all directions backwards and forwards through your system that inherrently themselves add additional loops - then you are screwed and should have designed your system to be balanced from the start.

 

[Cut-Throat]

None of which will be a problem if you have broken the loop with the isolation.

Of course - if you've got connections going in all directions backwards and forwards through your system that inherrently themselves add additional loops - then you are screwed and should have designed your system to be balanced from the start.

Plenty of Great Components that are not balanced..... I don't have a Ground Loop Problem.

 

[antcollinet]

Plenty of Great Components that are not balanced..... I don't have a Ground Loop Problem.

Good - most sensibly setup systems won't have.

It can get challening though using RCA with (for example) active/powered speakers which are a long way from the source. Or any other setup that requires analogue interconnect longer than about 1m. But as I said above - it depends on the specific interconnect arrangements between components, and how those components are grounded.

 

[auronthas]

Ground loop issue could also be from USB via PC/NUC into D90, also could be interference from ethernet cable , it's advise to use unshielded (non-metallic) ethernet cable and of round type to avoid noise transmitted into DAC then amplified .

 

[antcollinet]

Ground loop issue could also be from USB via PC/NUC into D90, also could be interference from ethernet cable , it's advise to use unshielded (non-metallic) ethernet cable and of round type to avoid noise transmitted into DAC then amplified .

The ground LOOP is created from the various interconnect between devices, and/or the grounding connections of devices back to the mains earth (the earth wire of which can form part of the loop).

The source of interference coupling INTO the loop can be one of the devices in the system (often the graphics hardware of a PC) - but it can also be a completely separate device which creates a magnetic field that couples into the loop. EG pickup from the mains supply in the house wiring - a nearby device with a power transformer in it, the compressor motor of a fridge - etc etc.

Ground loop noise is not the same as (usually common mode) conducted interference output on power and signal connectors from one device to another.

 

[kopczas]

If you suspect usb connection creating groondloop, you may try TOPPING HS01 to isolate PC and DAC ground.

 

[auronthas]

The ground LOOP is created from the various interconnect between devices, and/or the grounding connections of devices back to the mains earth (the earth wire of which can form part of the loop).

I have a bad experience connecting my Intel NUC to D90 with USB despite having iFi iDefender (not sure if it's galvanic isolator?), there's high pitch noise can be heard near speakers , this high pitch noise remain there regardless of my amplifier volume, most obvious when no music is playing with amplifier turn on.

My Intel NUC power supply unit (AC/DC) comes with 3-pin plug, with earth/ground pin, and it's shared the same power circuit with my amplifier from Novaris Power Conditioner.

 

[antcollinet]

I have a bad experience connecting my Intel NUC to D90 with USB despite having iFi iDefender (not sure if it's galvanic isolator?), there's high pitch noise can be heard near speakers , this high pitch noise remain there regardless of my amplifier volume, most obvious when no music is playing with amplifier turn on.

My Intel NUC power supply unit (AC/DC) comes with 3-pin plug, with earth/ground pin, and it's shared the same power circuit with my amplifier from Novaris Power Conditioner.

Are you able to use optical from NUC to Dac? Or do you have a USB to optical converter you could use? This would completely eliminate any ground loop. Alternatively (just as a test) try bluetooth from Nuc to DAC instead of USB.

How are you powering the IFI defender? The external PSU for that needs to be ungrounded to avoid creating another ground loop there. Do you have balanced inputs on the amp? If so you could try balanced connections from

However, the fact that the noise is not impacted by the amp volume suggests it might not be a ground loop at all. Ground loop noise is normally injected into the input stage of a device at the recieving end of an analogue interconnect. Level of this would also be changed by the amp volume control. Do you still get the noise if you disconnect the NUC usb wire? Do you have another device (eg laptop or tablet with USB adaptor) you could try. A laptop running on battery is also unable to create a ground loop through the USB.

Are there any other devices in the system - or is it just NUC to Dac to Amp to Speakers? What amp and speakers to you have. You may just have a noisy amp with sensitive speakers.

 

[auronthas]

Are you able to use optical from NUC to Dac? Or do you have a USB to optical converter you could use? This would completely eliminate any ground loop. Alternatively (just as a test) try bluetooth from Nuc to DAC instead of USB.

How are you powering the IFI defender? The external PSU for that needs to be ungrounded to avoid creating another ground loop there. Do you have balanced inputs on the amp? If so you could try balanced connections from

However, the fact that the noise is not impacted by the amp volume suggests it might not be a ground loop at all. Ground loop noise is normally injected into the input stage of a device at the recieving end of an analogue interconnect. Level of this would also be changed by the amp volume control. Do you still get the noise if you disconnect the NUC usb wire? Do you have another device (eg laptop or tablet with USB adaptor) you could try. A laptop running on battery is also unable to create a ground loop through the USB.

Are there any other devices in the system - or is it just NUC to Dac to Amp to Speakers? What amp and speakers to you have. You may just have a noisy amp with sensitive speakers.

There is no optical output from Intel NUC and I do not have USB-optical converter.

To solve the high pitch noise, I have to disconnect this USB cable. Luckily I have a network media player CXN V2 Roon Ready, my Intel NUC is Roon Core, it able to detect CXN V2 and music library (from Intel NUC). Meanwhile I am getting a better quality power supply unit from MeanWell with same voltage 19V DC, 90W for Intel NUC, waiting for its arrival to minimise unnecessary electrical noise.

I do have balanced XLR and RCA, both having the high pitch sound when USB is connected.

 

[maruko]

Hi, I searched on the internet but couldn’t find an answer.

Is the D90 I2S input asynchrounous?

Theoretically it should be synchronous, but someone say that in the end it is still the DAC that dictates its clock

Furthermore, which is the difference between LRCLK mode and DATA mode in the I2S settings menu of the D90?

 

[amirm]

Hi, I searched on the internet but couldn’t find an answer.

Is the D90 I2S input asynchrounous?

Theoretically it should be synchronous, but someone say that in the end it is still the DAC that dictates its clock

Furthermore, which is the difference between LRCLK mode and DATA mode in the I2S settings menu of the D90?

I don't see how it can run asynchronously. If the internal clock is used, then over time it will drift away from I2S clock. If it runs too slow, then it will be overwhelmed with data from I2S with nowhere to put the data. If it runs too fast, then it will run out of samples to play causing a glitch in audio.

The only way to make this work would be to use a resampler which AKM DACs lack.

On the settings, I suspect that is to allow for different source implementations of I2S but I am not sure.

 

[eduardw]

Hi
I need some help I'm intrested in the new Shanling ET3 cd transport.
it has a i2s output.
But looking at the manuals, it looks like that the standart "pin" configuration of the Shanling ET3 is a match for the reversed setting on de the topping D90.
I put both the i2s layout in a screen shot see attached file.

I'm not sure If i can change the settings in the topping menu or that it is a jumper setting? Could someone advise me how to make the correct adjustment on the Topping or Shanling ET3.
Also, I'm I correct that out of the box it should not work. I do not have the Shanling yet. I would like to order it when I know how to connect them correctly by I2S.

Kind Regards
Eduard

The Netherlands.


Link for manual topping
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0225/2721/3642/files/TOPPING_D90_User_Manual.pdf?v=1609896094


Link for manual shanling

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LMs_LdeQkyiJ7_vmLoP-Ruhm-J6Mn3q2/view


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gG3DKF71QQFx_fCXXfFkAnpWH1Kl3PyE/view

 

[antcollinet]

why do you want to use the I2S interface? Optical would be the better choice IMO.

 

[Jimster480]

Hi
I need some help I'm intrested in the new Shanling ET3 cd transport.
it has a i2s output.
But looking at the manuals, it looks like that the standart "pin" configuration of the Shanling ET3 is a match for the reversed setting on de the topping D90.
I put both the i2s layout in a screen shot see attached file.

I'm not sure If i can change the settings in the topping menu or that it is a jumper setting? Could someone advise me how to make the correct adjustment on the Topping or Shanling ET3.
Also, I'm I correct that out of the box it should not work. I do not have the Shanling yet. I would like to order it when I know how to connect them correctly by I2S.

Kind Regards
Eduard

The Netherlands.


Link for manual topping
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0225/2721/3642/files/TOPPING_D90_User_Manual.pdf?v=1609896094


Link for manual shanling

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LMs_LdeQkyiJ7_vmLoP-Ruhm-J6Mn3q2/view


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gG3DKF71QQFx_fCXXfFkAnpWH1Kl3PyE/view

I don't see any reason to use i2s unless you have burned out your USB interface.

 

[eduardw]

Thanks, I thought that connecting by I2s would be the best connection. I think the optical output is limited in bandwith. The Shanling can also stream high resolution.
I allready use the USB input on the topping. Maybe the AES is the way to go?

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks, I thought that connecting by I2s would be the best connection. I think the optical output is limited in bandwith. The Shanling can also stream high resolution.
I allready use the USB input on the topping. Maybe the AES is the way to go?

Toslink limited bandwidth is not limited to any degree that can compromise audio performance. Even 24/48 is more than anyone can hear. 24/96 is twice the bandwidth of that - and completely un-necessary, yet still fine for Toslink.

 

[eduardw]

Hi Tony, I think your correct maybe I'm a bit influenced about the I2S "hype". I know I2S was never designed to be used as an "outboard" connection. If I'm correct I2S is used internally for transmitting the data towards the dac part of a player. The assumption is as it used internally then it should also be the best connection between a transport and a dac. Thats why i wanted to try the I2S connection to the Topping. Maybe I should just buy the shanling and try to do a listing test between the shanling and my current transport
modified (in 2005) sony CDP-xa50es. This was a cd player now it is only a transport. I still like the Sony but not sure how long it will keep working

That sad I'm not that good in listing tests. I rarely hear any difference between my cd transport and my fanless HTPC running foobar2000. But I think there is still a small advanced for the Sony.

Regards
Eduard